SteveS, I have to disagree. How did you test to support your assertions? It was unclear in your previous posting as to the settings for your rears. (No rears defaults to DTS)

My initial testing was flawed because I did not notice that by setting, or toggling through, NONE for my rears, the 950 would change from DTS-ES to DTS.

If you set all of your speakers to large, and make sure that your soundfield is set to DTS-ES, and not DTS, (shown in the upper, right-hand corner of the LCD display) you will not get LFE. Well, I should say, several of us are not getting LFE.

The point is not that we run with our speakers set to large (we don't). The point is that there is EXTRA LFE information in the soundtrack (the .1 part) that is missing when playing back in DTS-ES mode. With our speakers set to small, our subs will play the crossed-over bass from our speakers, but the LFE encoded sound will be missing. It's a small percentage of the sound (only the explosion of the fireworks in the chapter I tested), but it is missing.

--Mike


[This message has been edited by Llamas (edited March 08, 2003).]

If you go back and read my posts, you will see that I agree with this statement . I am saying if you set your fronts and center to large, but your surrounds to small, you will have LFE.
Hmmmm, I have not seen where anybody has had a problem with speakers config'ed to small. In fact, the person who started this thread said:


Best wishes....
Steve

Steve, Are you sure that's the LFE channel coming from the sub and not the bass from surround channels that have been set to small?

If anyone has a DTS test DVD with an isolated .1 LFE track, you can check whether you're hearing discrete bass or derived bass at any given time.

Best,
Sanjay

Kevin, Maybe, maybe not. If any of your speakers are set to small and your subwoofer was active during the movie, then you may have heard the discrete LFE content. Or it may have been the derived bass from the other channels. At this point no one seems sure.

Besides, you know you want to watch that movie again; the witty dialogue and Oscar calibre acting is too tempting to resist. Are you sure that the problem lies in the Cirrus chip? I think my Lex processor uses the same Cirrus DSP but doesn't exhibit the same problem. Are there any other DSP chips in the 950?

Best,
Sanjay

I am having the same problem with my unit. I thought it was going nuts, but I am glad to know it is not just me. By the way I have the red dot unit. If that helps. I look forward to an update from the Outlaws.

Mike

You could be right. Unfortunately, I have no test DVD. You are right, the MC-12 does use the same Cirrus chip-- so it can't be all bad!
I'm watching it as I type Back to the movie!!

I started this topic Mar 3 in Favorite Demos
subject "Lord of the Rings" because the movie didn't sound right to me. I was excited about playback in dts-es discrete.
I noticed right away the sound lacked impact,
floor shaking bass I'm used to w/my system.
I checked my sub's, No Output- No LFE. Thought I might have a bad copy of "LOTR".
I proceded to listen to other dts material using the 6.1 mode- No LFE. I did get some sub output w/speakers set to small but not the kind of impact I expect from the LFE channel.
I think it's real simple, my 950 does not reproduce the .1 LFE channel while in the dts-es mode. Doesn't matter what the speaker
setting is. I can easily hear and feel the lack of LFE. If I set any speaker to small all I'm outputing to the sub is re-directed bass.
Kinda like ordering a Whopper and getting a junior.
So, Outlaw Audio, where's the Beef in dts6.1?
massi2u

Fellow Outlaws:

While it is our general policy not to intrude on the conversations in the Saloon, the comments in this thread clearly warrant a comment from us. To those of you who might wonder if the Outlaws read the messages in the Saloon, we trust that this will put that issue to rest once and for all.

Based on your comments, it appears that there may be an issue with regard to the playback of LFE data with the DTS-ES mode. First of all, thanks to our members of the Saloon for identifying this issue. Despite our rigorous internal and external testing, as well as the use of the Model 950 by an ever-growing community, this issue had not surfaced until now.

Before we tell you what we are doing about this, it is important to note that this reported issue does NOT impact any other mode or the overall sonic quality of the Model 950. All analog, Dolby Digital and standard DTS sources operate properly with the sonic quality you have come to expect from Outlaw.

As to the issue at hand, we have forwarded all of the information on the situation to our engineering and product teams in both Asia and the US. They are currently running a variety of tests to verify and quantify exactly what may be happening, and why. This testing involves both the hardware and software, although the nature of your reports suggests that the software is most likely involved. The testing includes both listening and a review of the various elements of the software code.

In a complex product such as the Model 950 this requires examination of multiple levels of software and their interaction. You may not know that there are three separate software sources in a product such as a surround processor: The individual surround algorithms such as DTS come from one source and they are then incorporated in the code provided by the microprocessor suppliers. In both of those cases we do not alter the code in any way, and use it as provided to us. On top of those two elements we create the operating code that glues everything together to run the unit.

The reason for explaining this is to let you know that the testing is a complex process requiring materials and installations outside the realm of a standard home theater system. We therefore ask that rather than continue to speculate on what is going on, you allow us to take the time needed to complete the in-depth testing. Anyone familiar with software knows that you need to look at things line-by-line to see what the impact of one section of the code is on another. We are doing just that, and while it would be inappropriate to put a guaranteed completion date on the process we are optimistic that we will have a solution within this week. Let’s just say that the issue has the complete and full-time attention of the design team.

Of course, your main question is “What does this mean to me?” As already stated, the first step is to define the parameters of the problem. You have started that and we are now picking up the ball. As soon as a root cause is identified to any problem, we’ll work as quickly as possible to find the fix and then test and validate it. The cause of the issue will, of course, determine what the appropriate corrective action might be.

In interim, we would like to remind you that for those using DTS with large speaker settings, the DTS+CS combination provides a very enjoyable presentation, as do the various Dolby modes. In addition, since this issue seems centered on the DTS-ES mode, it is not a factor when you are using the 950 in a DTS 5.1 configuration.

Most importantly, as those who have followed the forums over this past year know, customer support is at the heart of our business model, and we won’t let you down. If there is a problem we will find it, solve it, and provide a correction to anyone who encounters it. It’s as simple as that.

In summary, be assured that we are aware of your comments and are investigating the issue. As members of the Outlaw family, you know that we have corrected more serious issues in the past and if there is a problem along the lines of what is being discussed here, we will solve this as well.

Scotts reply is reason enough to Love this company. They go above and beyond and cater to their customers, and quickly at that.

I will wait to see what comes of this situation before I place my order for the 950. For now, I'll go enjoy my wonderous 200's

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Play it LoUd!!

Cool.

Maybe the S&V test disc has DTS-ES test stuff on it? I know it has DD EX... Avia is just DD/DTS.