#45401 - 03/06/03 10:18 AM
Re: No LFE w/DTS-ES
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Desperado
Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Monterey Park, CA
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Kevin, ...the new ultimate edition of Stargate, which is a 6.1 DTS-ES disc.
An obvious "somewhat" workaround is to use the CES DTS mode even for 6.1 DTS-ES discs (I checked this too, got LFE), but... ...but then you don't get the supposed benefit of the discrete surround-back channel of the 6.1 soundtrack. Also, as you probably already know, CES decoding is different from ES decoding: after the surround-back information is extracted, the CES process does not cancel that content from the Left & Right surround channels (as ES/EX process does). BTW, for anyone that has the 'Stargate: Ultimate Edition' DVD, try the 2-channel track using the PL II CES mode. Specifically, listen to chapters 28 and 21; the latter is a quiet scene and an especially effective demo of what a modern matrix decoder is capable of: you'll hear distinct left vs right and side vs rear placement of surround content. All from just two discrete channels. A far cry from the old Pro Logic days. Check it out! Best, Sanjay
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Sanjay
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#45402 - 03/06/03 01:07 PM
Re: No LFE w/DTS-ES
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Desperado
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
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Sanjay- CES DTS vs DTS-ES: I know, that's why I call it a "somewhat" workaround. 
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If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.
KevinVision 7.1 ... New and Improved !!
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#45403 - 03/06/03 03:42 PM
Re: No LFE w/DTS-ES
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Deputy Gunslinger
Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 2
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massi2u, Does your DVD-A by Jonathan Brooke LFF signal come out o.k. when in any other DTS mode, aside from DTS-ES? Thanks for the test. I don't have that particulary DVD-A disc. Originally posted by massi2u:
I rented "Gladiator" w/DTS-ES 6.1 soundtrack.
No LFE from my 950 when fronts set to large.
I also have a multi-format DVD-A by "Jonatha Brooke", included is a 5.1 DTS verison, No LFE output from this disc either!
I like to keep my fronts set to large,esp w/music. My 950 seems to degrade the presentation when I set the fronts to small no matter which crossover freq I select.
It doesn't seem to be a software issue.
Can anyone else try this out.Thanks
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#45404 - 03/06/03 05:44 PM
Re: No LFE w/DTS-ES
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Desperado
Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Monterey Park, CA
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Kevin, that's why I call it a "somewhat" workaround. Still, I'd rather take your workaround than not have surround back content and (more importantly) lose the LFE channel. Sanjay
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Sanjay
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#45405 - 03/06/03 07:06 PM
Re: No LFE w/DTS-ES
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Gunslinger
Registered: 04/15/02
Posts: 32
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Oh, man... I'm at the tail end of my evaluation period, and this alone may prompt me to send it back.
--Mike
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#45406 - 03/06/03 07:44 PM
Re: No LFE w/DTS-ES
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 18
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I did further comparison between DTS-ES &
DD-EX,I don't think my 950 outputs the .1 channel(LFE) at all in DTS-ES 6.1 discrete.
The only sub activity is from the redirected bass when fronts are set to small.
DTS-ES 6.1 discrete seems to be at fault.
The "LFE" functions properly in all other modes.
[This message has been edited by massi2u (edited March 06, 2003).]
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#45407 - 03/06/03 08:17 PM
Re: No LFE w/DTS-ES
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Gunslinger
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 264
Loc: Independence, Ohio, USA!!
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Is this an isolated problem? Or are there more owners out there that are coming across this?
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Play it LoUd!!
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#45408 - 03/06/03 09:43 PM
Re: No LFE w/DTS-ES
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Gunslinger
Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 18
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Originally posted by bossobass:
as i've mentioned before, i'm using a bass management system that i devised a few months ago and i don't have the ambition to reconnect my setup the conventional way. however, i can verify the following:
dts-es discs: pearl harbor, gladiator and lord of the rings ALL have LFE content. with speakers all set to 'large', there is no redirected bass (as it should be).
with my system, the speaker config menu doesn't affect the LFE signal whatsoever, so i can't verify whether or not the LFE gets lost or otherwise redirected when front speakers are set to 'large' in the conventional system.
some dvd-a discs have no LFE info (this amounts to false labeling of the discs as being 5.1 when, in fact, they are 5.0... thank you, mr. elen).
massi2u: where did you buy the lord of the rings disc?
i did notice one curious thing in my tests that i didn't know before. i tested some dts-cd discs also. i tried to play them through the 6 ch bypass and got a loud hiss instead of music. i wasn't aware that dts-cd isn't output through the player's analog outs.
i'm also curious to know why you (massi2u) get nothing in your sub with fronts set to 'large'. unless ALL of your satellites are also set to 'large', you should at least be hearing some redirected bass from them in your sub.
anyway, if anyone else tests this situation out, make sure ALL satellites are set to 'large' so only LFE should be in the sub.
massi2u: when setting main satellites to 'small', i'm guessing that you have vented front speakers. depending on which ones, the 12db/octave high pass filter that's applied when setting them to 'small' alters the low freq slope to 36 db/octave and may cause a bump in response at the corner frequency (and it will be slightly different for each HP point selected). this makes for a bad crossover with a sub LP slope of 24db/octave (the standard BM LP slope), resulting in a hole and a bump at crossover. also, as KCB has said before, there may be phase issues added to this problem. finally, your subwoofer may simply not be doing a good job, making it impossible to reintegrate the redirected bass.
you can try setting your sub's LP point at 10 hz higher than the HP you select for the mains and experiment with the phase reverse switch and/or control. if you do, give it a couple of days so your ears can acclimate.
this isn't such a big deal in 2 ch music, but a sub and the same high pass for all speakers set to 'small' is definitely better for multi-channel formats.
[This message has been edited by bossobass (edited March 05, 2003).] Bossobass: I have all speakers set at large except center. Got "LOR" at Blockbusters
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#45409 - 03/07/03 02:36 AM
Re: No LFE w/DTS-ES
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Desperado
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
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Sanjay- I agree.  I'm a little bummed because I watched/listened to the Stargate DVD last weekend in DTS-ES mode, and now I'm thinking I should go back and watch it again with CES DTS. Llamas- Hang tight. I bet Outlaw's customer service will come galloping forth to deliver us some news about this soon... I wonder... The Rotel uses the same DSP engine, if they have the same problem... Heck, the 950 has been out for over a year (depending on how you count) and massi2u was the 1st to spot it... [This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited March 07, 2003).]
_________________________
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.
KevinVision 7.1 ... New and Improved !!
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#45410 - 03/07/03 03:16 AM
Re: No LFE w/DTS-ES
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Desperado
Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 430
Loc: charlotte, nc usa
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just wondering:
anyone else using blockbuster discs?
do you have 1 or 2 surround back speakers?
is your sub connected via the 950's sw output?
does setting surround back speakers to 'none' have any effect on the test?
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