I am concerned about not moving that much forward beyond the capabilities of a good a/v receiver.
Personally I think it does move quite a bit forward from the Super stores AV receivers I’ve heard, including the entire Marantz line I listened to at a boutique, and most definitely the super receivers (Pioneer/HK/Sony) I’ve heard. Some argue these kinds of generalities are not valid statements, When these opinions are formed without an A/B comparison at home. But there is that commonsense part of me which continues to feel, to a certain extent my ear knows what it likes without bringing it home (or thinks sounds better) or none of us would ever be capable of hearing a competing set of speakers while in a store, and lusting after their sound to the extent of beginning planning our old speakers replacements. .…..before we in-home demo the product. But I haven’t heard a thing that made me waffle on replacing the 950/770. Having an in=-house match myself with the 950 combo with the Outlaw amp, I don’t know if the synergy of the Outlaw separates is better than a 950 paired with other power choices, yet this is my comparison base. I like the 770 over several amps I’ve heard also. I could not tell you whether it affected my high, low or middle end, only that there was a leap in music detail and clarity detected, - over the 3 different amps I heard running the speakers I ultimately purchased.
Several models you mention, I have yet to hear personally but after researching for month’s consumer’s posts about home demo’s and their opinions, factoring tradeoffs of certain features between the unit’s etc. Still feel way ahead on my Outlaw purchase.

I do have a ‘curious’ mind, would rather always hear/see for myself, but on many of these products I have had to base my conclusions on others written words. Thoughtfully considered by me over much time and weighted by many factors. But when the opportunity arose to get a good deal on a second Outlaw system I went that route rather than availing myself of numerous other options. It says a lot that nothing I have heard out and about had stirred me enough to try one of these other options just for the sake of sheer variety (novelty) of owing a different branded second system.

I am capable of ‘yanking’ an unsatisfactory purchase out of my system. I’ve recently returned one DVD player and one HD STB. (and replaced a brand new 7.1 set of speakers once I desired ‘more’ out of my speakers than I currently was getting) After living with Outlaw products and their CS, (longer than the speakers I replaced) I felt confident with my decision to purchase a second round from Outlaw; I’d have to rate my satisfaction as extremely high.

Being fair to Outlaw, I feel they were the only company to put ‘thought’ into the current doublebass quandary as regards DVD-A and SACD. At the time they choose the default setup which would offer the best solution to most average systems in use. They have the only work around, for those who desire dealing with it. They noted the need for the ICBM and reacted when all players had no bass control options. I think Outlaw has proved (on the whole as a company) they are rather more ‘thoughtful’ about bass management than not. And from what I’ve learned about Outlaw in the past year, they will acknowledge and address any issues (like these currently) bending to customer feedback, where and when economically it can be feasibly applied to hit a price point target in their next product.

My bottom line, I don’t think Outlaw can be beat (sound wise). Feature wise (we all have different priorities and preferences what I might accept another might not). By any mid-grade to super receiver on the market. And it comes close enough to that other sky rocket escalation in separates of diminishing returns, to keep me a very happy listener for the conceivable future.

Since Outlaw makes an in-home 30 day demo as uncomplicated and easy on the consumer (to the doorstep) as is feasibly possible. Since this kind of (your ears) demo is not even possible with many choices on the market. With Outlaw NO ONE , has to rely mine (or anyone else’s ) debate abilities.
(just me and my shadow )

But....but....LENA!....


The topic is MOTORCYCLES!!


[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited March 02, 2003).]

Duplicate....

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited March 01, 2003).]

Ok its all good. I won't talk about motorbikes anymore. I'm concentrating on the fabulous Billie Holiday coming from my OUTSTANTING Outlaw 950/770 combo at the moment.

Hi, Thought I'd chime in 'cause I had your exact same receiver before I upgraded to the Outlaw 950/770 combo. No regrets at all. Very notible improvement in sound, features, function et al. The only downside is that I then had to upgrade my speakers to hear what my old speakers (Cambridge Soundworks all round) were hiding. Got the Rockets and now the sound is truely outstanding.

Now trying to decide whether to keep the CS Subwoofer (SB1000) or move to the SVS or the soon-to-be-announced Rocket Sub. So be careful, upgrading sound can be adicting (and rewarding).

------------------
--Peter

Dear SLL:

Please share with us your current Speaker configuration...

I seem to remember that you had upgraded to Vienna Acoustics 'Beethoven's for mains and you were considering VA 'Bach's for the surrounds... Is that right?... or has your desire moved you seek another?

I have admired the presentation of the VA Beethoven's at a friends home. Subsequently I have replaced the tweeters of an old pair of B&W 'DM3000' (circa 1985) with the same VA silk dome drivers to bring them into the 21st century. A Wonderful transfiguration.

While I have B&W N803 mains and B&W CDM NT center and surrounds, featuring a metal dome tweeter design;
those old DM 3000's are now alive again with the silk VA tweeters. They are used in a stereo only configuration powered by an old McIntosh Amp with capacitors almost the size of Fosters (the beer) depth charges.

Thank you.


[This message has been edited by AGAssarsson (edited March 02, 2003).]

Please share with us your current Speaker configuration AGAssarsson, sorry first saw this too late just last night to reply. Right now I still have the VA’s for FL/FR Cent. But am cont. to run the Defn Tech Pro Cinema 100’s for surrounds.
I fully intend to ‘lay’ a Beethoven on its side to demo it for use as a center, (very weird idea I came up with and posted about recently) and to decide, if I can fit, one of the smaller VA lines (like the Bach) in for the surround placements. I’ve way overspent in the last 12, so this may wait a while. Also I have side issues that keep me from getting to my own AV constantly, which needs attention. Spent this weekend shopping with my mom, for her new HD display to be delivered Tues (which I’ll be setting up). Last night she and my sister were rolling on the floor laughing, after my sister and I finished assembling the new display base, , - when I stated I need to check your DVD VHS & Sat. to make a shopping list for some decent cables to replace the aging ‘came in the box’ assort. I picked up her Sat receiver glanced at the back, and declared seriously, “Well, there’s not much I can do for this one”. (Connectivity options were composite and coax in from dish …period). They don’t understand it, but they thought my delivery was very funny.
PS, I think the tweeters installed in the VA's were half the attraction of that purchase for me. I've decided right now my ears don't like metal dome or even the metal 'thero cooled ?) etc hybrids. The silk domes VA uses, are smooth and beatifully articulte whilst NEVER hitting even a barely edged shrillness. (my kind of tweeter!). That was a great choice (IMO) to upgrade the domes in your speakers!
Now back to the 'real' topic..."MOTORCYCLES!!" ummm,...they look really cool?!!

[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited March 03, 2003).]

Thanks for all the good honest responses. I believe that the 950 represents a fantastic value in the pre/pro category but have come to the conclusion that I am looking for more. There are a lot of convenience features and usability issues that the 950 seems to have omitted to achieve the price point. The next pre/pro that Outlaw manufactures will probably be what I want but I can't wait that long. The pre/pro category is really frustrating right now as there is a void in the $1500-$3000 price range. The Rotel 1066 and Outlaw 950 really have things covered up to the $1500 range and the Anthem AVM20 and B&K Ref 50 take over at $3000. The $1800 to $2400 range is almost completely devoid of current, up to date products. I know that Adcom's GTP-880 is coming at $2000 but nobody know much about it or when it will be ready. I have also not heard a lot of good things about Adcom. I am currently leaning towards the Anthem pre/pro but spending that kind of money on an audio piece is tough. If anyone from Outlaw reads this, please build a $3000-$3500 quality pre/pro and offer it for $1800-$2400. You will stun the industry and corner the pre/pro market.

My gut feeling is that you're probably right on. The 950 has 80% of the functionality any reasonable person would require, but it has some shortcomings that fall into (as I see it) three broad categories:

- Cosmetic issues [color, finish, cheap feel to some controls,...]
- User interface or usablity issues [remote from mars, lack of discrete codes, ]
- Feature issues [Double bass, no re-labelable inputs, no local trims,....]

None of the above really seriously affect the actual performance of the unit as a HT controller, but taken together it is clear that this is not a $3000-3500 unit in a $900 package. Rather, it takes advantage of the 80/20 rule to deliver a good unit at a greatly reduced cost. This is a great accomplishment and Outlaw Audio should be commended, but there is, as was noted, room to fill above the 950.

I suspect there are a lot of folks who would pay double or maybe triple to get that last 20%. Anyone care to confirm or deny this last part? $1800 - $2700 seems like a good zone to me....

[80/20 rule: The last 20% takes 80% of the effort.]

If you look a round just a little, you can find the B&K Ref 50 for $2250-ish...

[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited March 07, 2003).]