I have a Panasonic DVD RP-56 and the Outlaw 1050. I just rented JPIII and the digital soundtrack has gaps. I got a second copy and same thing happened.
The silences are about 2 seconds long and occur *randomly* - not only in loud passages but anywhere, and when you repeat the passage, the gap does not repeat at the same spot. When there is a gap, the DD light flickers on the 1050.
So, is this a DAC problem on the 1050, or a problem with the RP-56 (and I have changed audio settings back and forth in infinite combinations here to no avail) or is JPIII running something weird on the DVD?
Possible clues: JPIII says it has both DD and DTS tracks. The 1050 manual says it automatically picks tracks, but it has never lit up the DTS light. I shut down DD on the RP56 by switching it to PCM, but then the 1050 chose PCM and not DTS. Under PCM there were no sound gaps, but obviously no 5.1 channels either. Also, feed from the analog stereo outputs is clean under all scenarios.
Clue #2 - when playing CDs through the optical cable, a CD that begins loudly causes *lots* of distortion on the speakers, particularly the rear ones, when the audio processing is set to any of the DSP modes. In stereo, no problemo. And, in DSP modes, if I *change* the mode the distortion goes away and doesn't come back.

I hate to think there is something wrong with the Outlaw, but IMHO the clues are pointing that way. Help?????

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==Those are my principles. If you don't like 'em, I have others.==

Oops. Left out a clue. The introductory loop, featuring creature sounds and music, lights the DD light and has no gaps at all. Plays perfectly. It's only when the movie starts that the gaps start.
Score a plus for the 1050, it seems.

-- Chuck

Hmmm... Interesting...

Did you select the DTS track on the DVD? The 1050 identifies which format the DVD player is providing, but the DVD will default to DD (since most people can't handle DTS). You'll have to select DTS from the DVD menu to get the DTS track.

As for the real question here -- the random gaps in the audio, which appears to be caused by the 1050 changing decoding mode from DD and back to DD real quickly. Do any other discs cause the problem? (And has anybody else around here watched JPIII through their 1050, or through an RP-56 to any receiver?) I'd be curious to know if the problem repeats for other DD sources, and if it occurs with DTS sources (see my first note to test that). If it's the DD only, I'd suspect the 1050's decoding. If it's DD and DTS, I'd start to wonder about the RP-56 a little as a possible culprit (although since PCM worked over the optical, the RP-56 is probably not at fault).

Have to think about this one some more...

I've had the same problem you are having on JP III, however, not on JP III....let me explain.

The short explanation is that when I changed my digital audio cable, the problem went away. I was using a Monster Cable Lightspeed Digital Optical cable. (I can't remember which one but it was about $50...D'oh!) I switched to a Digital Coax cable and it doesn't happen anymore. (I'm actually using a crappy rca cable that isn't really supposed to be used for what I'm using it for.) My DVD player is a Sony DVP-S330.

Anyway, I had the same problems. Random drop outs in sound and it didn't happen on every DVD I owned. Just a few. Galaxy Quest, X-men and Parent Trap are the ones that come to mind. I spoke to Scott about it and he suggested I try and switch from the optical cable and just try an rca cable out of the digital coax to see if it fixed the problem instead of running out and buying an expensive one. Well, it fixed it and I just haven't found the time or extra cash to buy a real one. (Outlaw, you'll receive my order soon.)

I've listened to the DD and the DTS tracks for JP III and I haven't experienced any drop outs. Gonk's right (of course Gonk's right! :-) about accessing the DTS track. On every DTS DVD I have, you have to select it manually from the DVD's menu. Sometimes it's under the 'Language' heading, sometimes it's under an 'Audio' heading.

Good luck and let us know if the cable change works.

i use the same monster cable you do and have had no problems at all with drop out.

scott

The cable!? I started to wonder about it, and then said "nah, it's an optical cable -- how could it be at fault?" Good info, kugumby.

Does the RP-56 have a coax digital out? I'm thinking that it's optical-only. If that is the case, a check to make sure the optical cable is solidly connected or (after the connection check) a cable change might be in order. The PDO from Outlaw is $20, a very good deal compared to the Monster opticals (as I've got a Monster optical sitting in "The Closet" -- where all computer spare parts, space cables, and other random stuff lives -- my wallet and I know well kugumby's pain on that count).

The JPIII and Pearl Harbor DVDs both appear to be affected by this anomaly. It has been reported on other forums that several other electronic manufacturers are also experiencing the same phenomenon. While we are not quite sure what is happening we are looking into it. For now, if you experience this issue with either of these discs, we recommend that you switch to the DTS track.

[This message has been edited by Scott (edited December 19, 2001).]

Fwiw this evening I picked up JP3 at the local SAMS Club for $17 & change. I tried both an optical and a coax digital cable. I got a repeatable pause & audio cut out at a bit after 1h17m, I believe this to be the layer change. Otherwise ... it was rock solid - under both DD6.1 and DTS. I was finally able to get a 1.5 to 2 second drop out if I manually set the 1050 to 5.1 mode - after several seconds there'd be an audio cut out, the mode indicator would alternate between DD & DD-Surround-6.1 and the Digital light would blink. After the 1.5 to 2 seconds (or 2 or 3 blinks) it would lock into 6.1 mode and stay rock stable. Identical behaviour regardless of whether I was using Optical or COAX cable.

Can anyone duplicate this?

Oh yeah, I am using a Panasonic DVDA-120.

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pat----

email: pat@sklenar.info ---===--- home page: Grumpy's Lair

[This message has been edited by psklenar (edited December 19, 2001).]

Thanks for all the replies! Being somewhat new to DVDs, I didn't know where to go on the JPIII choices to change to DTS. It was the *Language* menu. Who knew DTS was a language? Anyway, I set it for "English DTS 5.1" and as Scott says, it worked perfectly.

-- Chuck

PS - too bad JPIII is such a lousy movie. I never will understand how one can spend 100 million on special effects and use a two cent screenplay.

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==Those are my principles. If you don't like 'em, I have others.==

Glad that DTS worked for you (even if the script didn't!).

I'll be curious to hear what is eventually learned about the Pearl Harbor and JP3 discs. After Scott's post yesterday, I checked a few other forums -- seems like the problem is most common (or most often reported) by Onkyo receiver users, typically those using newer Panasonic players (RP-56, RV-30). It's possible that there's something going on with the DD track that Pat's older Panny A120 (and my even older A310) might not get tripped up by? Of course, it's also possible that my unscientific survey (a quick spin through 3 or 4 forums) is wrong. I'll have to try renting JP3 over the holidays and check it out for myself...

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Gonk

...and it only took 200 posts to get around to making a sig file...

Hello,

The same problem occured for me but only if I play the movie off the PS2 not my Toshiba dvd. On the PS2 I had to go into its menu and shut off the DD output for the movie to be watchable, just switching it to DTS on the disc menu did not help. Otherwise it runs fine off the toshiba.

m-mmeyer

Gonk, I thought the exact same thing when Scott asked me to try it. All I know is that it worked. I suppose that the digital optical out on my Sony DVD player could be the problem too.

Go figure.

Hi,

We tried some experiments this weekend and among my friends, the only ones that had issues were the ones who's receivers(2 onkyos,1 kenwood) auto select between dd and dts. So I would tend to trust Outlaw when they say that it is a DD mastering issue. Which is fine cause I like dts just fine.

m-mmeyer

Did all three receivers have some support for 6.1/7.1 surround under DD? Because I got the impression from the newsletter on Christmas eve that the 6.1/7.1 support was tied in somehow... Definitely widespread, though.

Yes the Onkyos were both 777 or something(it sounded aero at least)and they are both 6.1 and the Kenwood I'm not sure what the model was but it was a 6.1 and 7.1 capable. The other 2 were a Yamaha which is a dd and dts but its only a 5.1 and it doesn't seem to auto select because it had a button for which mode, it didn't glitch at all. The other was my outlaw which acted the same. These tests were with there dvd player, my ps2 and a donor panasonic. All with optical out. If they were to have an issue it didn't matter which player. The only test I have left is to try the coax input instead of the optical on mine. These tests don't mean anything positive but I just wanted to get an excuse to play with HT equipment and see if others were experiencing the same things.
It was a busy but very fun day.

m-mmeyer

Sounds like a very fun experiment. Here's one more fun thing to try -- compare the 1050 in 6.1 mode to the 1050 in regular 5.1 mode (toggling Surround 6.1 on and off) to see if it affects the playback of the DD tracks. The newsletter made it sound like it had more to do with the flag identifying DD EX tracks than telling the difference between DD and DTS (that's the way I read it, at least). If that's the case, then switching 6.1 mode of on the 1050 might make a difference... And of course, have fun!

Did anyone try the French DD track? Because the French DD works fine on my 1050 but the English DD skips every couple of seconds. I've tried this on a PS2 with a Outlaw Toslink, and on my Sony DVP-S360 with a Digital Coax. Both skips in English DD but works fine in DTS and French DD 5.1

I have a new Onkyo 797 & a Panasonic RP-56 and I had the same problem with a rented Pearl Harbor DVD. I thought that the 797 would take the DTS by auto but you have to make sure in your RP-56 setup menu you have under the DISC tab go to AUDIO and make sure that DTS is set to "ON". Mine was set to off from the factory. I have just watch all of "chapter 11" with the dog fighting over the ocean and the planes crashes into the water and not one skip.....YIPE!!!! Hopefully your problem was as simple as mine (operater error).....

FWIW, I'm also having the same problem on JP III and Pearl Harbor using a Toshiba SD-1700 (temporary player) into my 1050. Connected with coaxial digital cable.

Seems to happen only at scene changes, which leads me to believe me it's something in the DVD itself, or the player dropping out while tracking the disc... Certainly not the 1050!

I tried Pearl Harbor today on my 1050 (with an old Panasonic DVD-A310 using coax digital connection) and had no problem with the DD track.

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Gonk

The problem must be relatively common as I had the same experience with JP3 on my 1050. Switching to DTS (my preferred format anyways) solved the problem. I also use a Monster Toslink cable and a Panasonic RV30 player.
No problem with Pearl Harbor, other than the fact they should have cut the first HOUR of that movie OUT! ;-)


[This message has been edited by USAudio (edited January 03, 2002).]

USAudio -
I'll second your problem with the first hour of Pearl Harbor -- my fiancee said the same thing somewhere around the 80-minute mark ("They could have started right here and it would have actually been a good movie!" was her comment, I believe).

I need to try Jurassic Park III; I'm curious to see if the problem has anything to do with newer players (maybe older players aren't smart enough to pass the data that's causing the problem?). Pat had no problem with JP3 on an older Panasonic A120, and my even older A310 did fine on Pearl, whereas Eskimo's SD-1700 (a player of about the same vintage as or newer than the RV30) had problems with both movies. If your RV30 did OK on Pearl, that may put an end to my theory of newer DVD players being part of the puzzle.

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Gonk

Gonk,

I have a Panasonic RV-30 which plays Pearl Harbor with no problems whatever.

Now as to your comments about the movie. Seems like too many folks are into instant gratification these days - i.e., "Let's see the action right away!" I think Pearl Harbor did a great job of showing how many of the very close, but very quick relationships between the sexes were catalyzed by the urgency and possible finality of war.

Your RV30 seems to be doing the same thing as USAudio's, which also worked on Pearl Harbor. Really a strange bug.

As for the first hour or so of Pearl, I can't speak for USAudio, but I felt like the idea of focusing on the lives of a few individuals in the whole mess was valid, but the script just seemed too clunky and painful to carry it off. To me it just felt like a good concept, but poor execution...

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Gonk

Re; Pearl Harbor --

No, I'm just pretty much into instant gratification... ;-)
Actually, there should be 2 cuts of the movie. The female cut (the current version) and the male cut (take the 1st hour out and add more action, explosions, air combat, etc. etc.).
:-)

Has Outlaw officially addressed this problem yet on the 1050? From what I've read on other forums some of the software companies (Universal and Disney) added some additional anti-piracy information into the DD EX flag on the discs. Receivers with auto detection aren't expecting that information and don't know how to handle it. The new Outlaw 950 pre/pro was delayed some more to fix this problem. This has affected a number of 6.1/7.1 manufactures. The quick fix is to use the DTS track if your DVD player supports that option. I'd like to get the 1050, but this worries me. Hopefully the studios will stop encoding the discs this way and release new versions that play properly.

From Dolby.com website:

Problem with the Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack on certain new DVDs

Question
I hear that some people are having difficulties listening to the Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack on certain new DVDs. What’s going on?

Answer
It has come to our attention that a limited number of consumer electronics products equipped with Dolby Digital decoders—primarily A/V receivers—experience audio muting or dropout problems with some new DVD and/or digital television content. Dolby is actively investigating this problem and is working to identify a solution for consumers as quickly as possible.

Thus far, Dolby, in cooperation with its customers and partners, has traced the issue to consumer equipment that misinterprets information found on some recently produced DVDs and digital broadcasts.

Dolby and its partners are currently working with the content industry to disable the new features in these movies and broadcasts that trigger these problems. In conjunction with this effort, we are working with the manufacturers of the affected products to identify potential consumer solutions.

Dolby will update this information as soon as a solution is identified.

I was going to watch JP3 just a few days ago, when, less than a minute into the movie the dropouts started to occur about every 10 seconds, just like most everyone else is experiencing. From everything I have read on HT message boards, this is definatley a problem with the DD-EX flag and not the 1050 or my PS2. If the DVD player or receiver were the issue why would a movie like Gladiator, which is also DD-EX play just fine? Does anyone know if they are going to reissue JP3 with a corrected DD track? Thanks for any info!

Well, just to add a data point - I've watched JP3 in DD 6.1 several times on my el-cheapo RCA DVD player through a 1050 with zero problems. Using the #1 optical input.

I've had the 1050 for some time now; one of the first 400 to receive one. I've just started experiencing the audio drop-outs that are explained in this thread.

I've been experiencing this problem in several titles of late. The worst was AI. The problem occured both through my coax and optical connections.

Is this problem getting worse???

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Bruce Tiller
WT-46807 Toshiba SD-6200
Outlaw 1050 Receiver
Definitive Tech BP2004TL
My DVD list

Bruce

Do you have the center surround speaker turned on? If not, turn it on -- that should resolve the problem (it did for JP3, PH, and Atlantis). I hadn't heard that A.I. also had the flag problem.

If you already have it on, then I'm stumped...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

See this thread (re Atlantis):
http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000184.html

As stated above, the problem is with certain Dolby 6.1 encoded movies when using the Outlaw's 5.1 mode. This is why a bunch of people above have said that they've played the affected titles "no problem, dude."

The patch is to either i) use DTS where available; or ii) switch the rear center channel on (even if you don't have one).

Regards
BB

[This message has been edited by bb80301 (edited April 16, 2002).]

Followup: I purchased AI and watched it again. This time, not a single audio drop out.

And I did not make any setup changes on the 1050 either.

Weird and wild stuff!

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Bruce Tiller
Mits WT-46807
Toshiba SD-6200
Outlaw 1050 Receiver
Definitive Tech BP2004TL
My DVD list

Did you have a rental before? Even new rentals are in poor shape. And anything handled by the sticky fingered crowd tends to get messed up pretty quickly.

Exactly! Everytime I rent a movie I have to clean it! Sometimes I swear people lick the DVD's after eating peanut butter.

Don't know where you're from, but around here we always lick the disc before eating peanut butter, never after.

[This message has been edited by scooter (edited April 27, 2002).]