Jason,

So it behaves differently if I put the 1050 into 6.1 mode vs. if I let it put itself into 6.1 mode. So even adding a 6th channel does not fix this bug. You have to remember to put the unit into the correct mode before you play the disc. Do I have that right ?

Finding Nemo has the same problem. What exactly is 5.1EX Why does it effect the 1050 like this?

e-dogg: Dolby 5.1EX is an encoding method for including what represents a rear center channel in the otherwise discrete rear surround channels. Thus a 5.1 signal actually carries the information that enables a 6.1 (or 7.1 since DD 7.1 at this point sends the same information to both rear center speakers).

JasonJ: It is my understanding (which could easily be wrong) that when the 5.1 signal is converted to 6.1, the source material that is extracted for the rear center(s) is then subtracted from the rear surrounds. Consequently this represents a 100% loss of that signal. Furthermore the volume level of the rear surrounds is reduced by 3 DB. Consequently, the option of playing back an DD 5.1EX in 6.1 mode without a rear center channel speaker(s) can result in a significant amount of signal loss depending upon what was being sent to that channel and will result in a overall reduction in rear presence due to the 3db volume drop.

All: I hope some of the discussion here points to why a Outlaw directed FAQ is highly desirable. They more than any of us should have the correct answers.

That seems to be my understanding of the issue. Adding a sixth channel works if you put the receiver into "6.1 Surround" mode before playing the disc.

The bug is from a different code for the DD EX flag on the DVDs. It's not a mistake on Outlaw's part. They used the code they had at the time for the sixth channel. Since that point, Dolby has changed the code.

I don't think this is quite right. It's my understanding that a DD EX encoded soundtrack has 6 discrete channels plus a subwoofer, thus making it 6.1 surround sound. To me that would mean the information that is going to the center surround, while related to the other surrounds, is from its own source. It's not information that is culled from the other surround channels. Of course, I could be completely wrong. For more info on this, some research at dolby.com might be in order.

This raises a question in my mind. How did you measure that 3dB drop in volume in the surrounds? Is that how much you have to turn up the 1050 to compensate for the surrounds? Just curious...

Dolby EX is a matrixed format -- the surround back channel is encoded in the two surround channels, just like Pro Logic uses the left and right channels to carry the center and mono surround signals. There is not a discrete surround back signal in Dolby EX. While we're on the subject, DTS-ES Discrete does have a separate channel in the digital track, but DTS-ES Matrix (the more common version) uses matrixing to carry the surround back channel (the digital data is 5.1 discrete channels, just like Dolby EX).

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gonk:
[B]Dolby EX is a matrixed format. There is not a discrete surround back signal in Dolby EX.

Does that mean with the rear center turned on, but not having a rear center speaker,in the EX format we are not losing any sound information.

I spoke with Scott today and he confirmed that we don't have any options here that the outlaws can suggest other than ignoring the lost data from the rear center channel. At frist he suggested that I play the disc in PCM mode. I wouldn't want to do this because pro-logic doesn't compare to DD but ironicly I went into the setup of the disc and you can't even select the audio track. The disc automatically forces the outlaw into Dolby EX 6.1 mode no matter what I do. So I have no choice but to ignore the data that is lost in the center channel.

I really appreciate the level of service that Outlaw provides. Scott returned my call as Steve promised. Unfortunately there seems to be nothing that the outlaws can do this time.

The Outlaws really have to add this to the FAQ. It seems many new discs are arriving with this problem and it will not go away on the forum if it is not added to the FAQ. I feel cheated enough having bought the 1050 less than a year ago and not feeling the need to replace it. I don't think it is fair to potential new customers to not make this problem clear. I realize that most companies would cover a problem like this up but I would not expect that from the Outlaws.

Finally, I am not able to find a difference if I place the device into 6.1 mode myself or if I let it force me into 6.1 mode. So I don't understand Jason's instructions to put the 1050 into 6.1 mode before starting the disc.

That could be a quirk with my 1050. I was thinking it worked for me because it ignores the flags that are causing all of the trouble. Remember also that I a sixth channel present.

Sorry to confuse...

Desperado and 73bruin,
Thanks for your persistence in gaining and sharing the flag info. I didn't do as well contacting customer service through email rather than telephone.
Desperado, I would think you can always get the PCM signal by hooking the analog output of your DVD player to an unused audio input on the 1050. It's OK to run, say, an anolog output and a digital output from a single source into the receiver. That way, on a problem disc, you could switch to the analog source, and then use the prologic. It doesn't solve the problem but I wanted to make sure you know you have that fallback, provided your dvd player has an analog audio output, as most do.