Just got through listening to “Fragile” by Yes on DVD audio. (Yes I am a child of the 70s) Having heard this album on vinyl, 8-track and cassette, I was blown away by the music mix and clarity. This is my first foray into the world of multi channel music and so far so good.

I’ve read a number of posts about how music is mixed and the quote about “you can’t polish a turd”. As the resident expert on music mixing I was hoping you could help me out.

In 2-channel music, it is annoying to me that there seems to be a loss of stereo in many recordings. The same instrument is playing at the same level out of both speakers with a hole in the middle. Vocals and other instruments are fine; it’s just one instrument that is off. I have moved my speakers a million times (slight exaggeration) trying to remedy this.

Questions 1 and 2:

Is this a result of the processor, the speakers or just a “turd” recording?

If not the recording, then what is the solution?

The DVD-A mix that I heard tonight was seamless, except that too much was mixed into the side speakers. But the front soundstage was wide and very seamless.

Questions 3 and 4:

And do I understand correctly that the DVD-A and SACD data remains untouched by any processing? It is straight analog from the DVD/CD player and there is nothing the processor does except pass the signal to the amp?

I'm not Soundhound but it may help if you would mention which stereo recordings you heard the hole in the middle of, and if there was other stereo recordings you heard that did NOT have a hole in the middle.

It may also be beneficial if you would mention which speakers you were using.

the only way an instrument can be placed extreme right AND extreme left with a 'hole' in the middle is if it is recorded on 2 tracks simultaneously and 1 track is panned right and the other track is panned left, in which case, it's as it was intended to be.

otherwise, you may have your speaker wires reversed.

i agree with will though, in needing to know which recording(s) you're talking about.

btw...yes 'fragile' on dvd-a...you dog! eddie offord...one of the best mixes ever. it would be cool if you reviewed that disc. though i am in the sacd camp,i am tempted to buy a dvd-a player just for that one.

I actually came across a CD once where I'm pretty darn sure that the whole thing was out of phase! And I can't even figure out if it was meant to be that way...

You can always buy the disc now and use your current DVD player to listen to the Dolby Digital track (which is simply a data-reduced version of the MLP track). You won't get the higher resolution of MLP, but you'll at least hear the discrete 5.1-channel mix.

Best,
Sanjay

Jacket Fan,

Are you talking about the Fragile DVD-A wrt stereo imaging?

As for a review of this disc, Bosso, it's incredible. It's crystal clear, it has a huge soundstage. One highlight (especially for us bass players) is Chris Squire's sound throughout. Heart of the Sunrise is immense! Steve Howe's guitar (Martin OO-18, I think) on Mood for a Day is as life-like as you can get on such an old recording. There's a bonus track of "America" from Yesterdays at the end. It's nice but I could have done without it. If this disc has you thinking of adding a DVD-A player to supplement SACD, then save some cash now because you're going to need it when Close to the Edge comes out this spring.

Many popular stereo recordings are intentionally mixed with most insturments and vocals coming equally from both channels - mostly 'dual mono' with just 'sprinklings' of some instruments coming from either the left only or right only. This is a convention that sucks for people who like good sound, but the 'masses' will be assured of hearing all the instruments no matter how messed up their speaker placement is. It's a holdover from the days of LPs. If an identical signal is panned equally to the left and right speakers, there will be a 'phantom' image created sharply in the middle.

One thing that is becoming very common is the use of 'spatializer' type processing which can image instruments out into the room, even behind you. With properly set up speakers, these can sound amazing, but these effects are created by intentional introduction of out of polarity signals, which can sound strange in some instances. Maybe this is what you are hearing, as it can sound like there's a hole-in-the-middle on certain instruments, even though the vocals and other instruments image sharply in the middle.

DVD-A and SACD have no baggage from LPs, so the mixes can be more creative, with wider soundstages front and back. It is still not unheard of for some instruments and vocals to be panned into all three front speakers to varying degrees.

Classical and Jazz recordings tend to have a wider soundstage in stereo, as natural sound is more valued.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited December 29, 2002).]

When Soundhound visited me, he heard some popular stereo soundtracks that had these effects and he preferred hearing them here in straight stereo over just two speakers, rather than having them processed into a 5.1 sound with DPL II or DTS NEO processing.

Thanks for the replies.



This is what I am asking about. Maybe a hole in the middle is not exactly the correct way to put it. It is more like the instrument is smeared across both speakers and you hear it on both the left and right sides rather than pinpointing it in one location. And "dual-mono" is what it sounds like. With the DVD-A recordings I can pinpoint where an instrument is without any smearing.



Ouch Will, I actually don't have any specific titles off the cuff, will have to make notes and get back on that...

Speakers are Diva 4.1s up front with an SVS 20-39 crossed over at 100Hz. I know these are not high end, but ya gotta start somewhere. I am using a Panny RP-82.

I am still wondering if the output of the RP-82 is passed through without any processing?

Thanks



------------------
No matter where you go, there you are.

mj

If an instrument is put through a digital delay with unequal delay times for the right and left channels, it will sound like it's coming from both speakers but not the phantom center. Reverb, chorusing, and other types of processing can also have the same effect. This is an intentional artistic decision of the person who mixed the music. If everything else is imaging as you think it should, I wouldn't worry about it.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited December 29, 2002).]