I am anxiously awaiting the Thursday arrival of my Model 950. I guess I would be considered optimistic after reading all of the negative comments in this forum about the hissing issues. I do have two of the "accomplices" of the hiss issue, highly sensitive speakers Klipsch KLF 20 mains (101 db sensitivity), KLF C7 center (98 db) db), RS-7 surrounds (99 db) and 2 Acurus A200x3 and 1 Acurus A200 amplifiers. I sold my Yamaha RX-V2095 which I was using as a pre/pro. I did notice a slight hiss when my ear is against the speakers, which I consider acceptable. I am hoping that is all I hear from the Model 950.

I will keep you posted.

Scott

Scott- Man, you have the "double whammy" of components where hiss has shown up. Yes, will be interesting to hear how bad yours is. Remember, the 950 has a "global mute mode" engaged when you first turn it on. As soon as you play any source, then is the time to check for hiss. (Play a DVD/CD, pause it, then listen.)

But also be aware, that there is some thinking that there is some variation in units. I have been lucky to be able to somewhat audition 4 950's so far. 3 of them acted more or less similarly. For the 4th, the hiss in the mains was similar, but for some reason, my rear center hissed less. That is a data point that still bugs me... 3 of the 4 were in my system, all set up exactly the same.


[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited November 06, 2002).]

I took some benchmark readings on my 2095 and found that at the 70db reference level (test tones calibrated to 70db which showed about -38db on the volume dial) my SPL did not register any hiss (<50db) but there was hiss audible with my ear to the tweeters in all 5 channels. This was consistent with all DSP modes and input sources. I then dialed the volume up to -20db, a point where you really can't hear yourself think, and the hiss was then audible from about 6-12 inches away from each speaker but I still was showing <50db for the mains and center but 52db for the surrounds.

I will test the 950 tonight, at refernce and at -20db to get a good comparison. To me the levels I am hearing right now don't seem to be that bad.......we'll see with the 950.

Your Yamaha measurements echo my experience. I had an RX-793 for a while. Less hiss than the 950 too.

Ok, after quickly swapping my Yamaha out for the Model 950 it was off to testing.

Results:
1. Audible hiss from listening area 10 feet from main speakers (still did not read above 50db on the SPL meter but it is definitely more noticeable than the Yamaha was). The hiss was independent of source as well as volume level. The surrounds and center did seem to be a little less audible, but maybe that is due to their lower sensitivity?

2. A feature I was missing on the Yamaha that proved to be worth its hype was the 7 and 5 channel stereo. This sounded great. I had tried to modify the room parameters on the party DSP mode on my Yamaha to have no reverb or delay but never got it to sound as good as the Outlaw did. The overall tone did seem a bit warmer than the Yamaha, which I have heard can be overly bright especially with the Klipsh speakers.

3. Video was the same if not maybe a bit better than the Yamaha. I have all S-Video connections and noticed that there was something I liked better about the picture, not sure what but at least the quality was as good if not better.

So far so good, with the exception of the audible hiss..........well next came the HT testing.

4. I picked out a few of my favorite scenes for sound effects and music detail in U571 and Sheryl Crow Rockin' the Globe, both DTS of course. First in U571 in chapter 14 when the submarine fires its deck gun on the destroyer and then proceeds to dive beneath the ship. I was looking for the detailed bullet fire strafing the deck of the sub and the firing of the ships guns. It wasn't there, actually the whole dialog and on screen effects from the center channel did not seem to jump to life as they did on the Yamaha, even at near reference level. The sound, as my wife put it, was very boxy sounding. I varied the crossover from 80 to 100 and even boosted the trim above the calibration point and never could get it right.

On the Sheryl Crow disc, the vocals seemed a bit warmer and blended better with the mains than on the Yamaha. I could here much more detail in the background instruments, like in All I Want to Do track 11 when he is scraping the stick across whatever that wooden thing is. Overall, I can't really tell what setup I like better on this disc, more time listening is needed.

Overall I must say I am not overjoyed with the performance of the model 950. The other quirks like the UI issue are not that big of a deal.

I am however VERY dissapointed that when I put the model 950 on my equipment rack I found that the four feet are not level. There is at least an 1/8" difference in one of the feet that cause it to rock like a uneven fast food table. Where is the QC on that!!!!

I still will give it a fair chance and enjoy it for the trial period, but I also will be auditioning other pieces to get another benchmark against my standard, the Yamaha.

Scott - interesting results. In fact sounds, at least a little bit, that you are happier with its musical sound than for HT. What is interesting is I cannot remember anyone arriving at that. It seems to have been the opposite across all forums. Have you calibrated all channels, etc for you listening?

The feet thing is disapointing. I dont remember, are they adjustable, ie is the one thats off just looser/toghter than the other 3? If not, I'd agree that shouldnt have left the building

You are right Davis S, I do seem to care for the music better, but again, I was looking at the true 5 channel stereo as coompared to my "makeshift" 5 channel stereo on the Yamaha which still sounded to "processed".

I use my 950 mostly for music not HT and like Scott Griscom, I like it for music.

I listen mostly to stereo CD's. On the 950, I compared 2 channel (plus sub) playback, to 5-7 channel (plus sub). Originally, when I first got the 950, I liked the multichannel sound better. But over time, as my ears got better educated, I began more and more to prefer playing back stereo CD's in my 950 as 2 channels (plus sub) rather than in DPL-M, DTS-M or 5/7 channel stereo. It was an educational process, where at first I preferred it one way, but now I prefer it the other way, when playing regular 2 channel CD's.

*Caveat: when I say 5/7 channel, it's meant as multichannel modes like DPL DTS and multichannel stereo. On my 950, I've only listened to 5.1 not 7.1

As far as my calibration goes, Davis S, I have set my reference point at -10 db and trimmed my main speakers to -3db, center to -2db and surrounds to -2db. These numbers seem right considering they are all 10 feet from my listening area and the relative differences in their sensitivitiy listed in my first post. As mentioned in Will's post, maybe it is an ear "training" thing, so I will be doing some heavy listening this weekend to be able to fairly evaluate this piece.

That is really weird. Aside from the foot not being screwed in all the way, about the only other thing I can think of that would cause that is if the chassis took a whack at some point and got bent out of square. I'd be curious to see if you find out the cause.

On my system, I can directly A/B the sound of CDs going through the 950, compared to directly from my CD player. Doing this, I haven't been able to tell any difference in the sound of the direct feed verses having the 950 in the loop. For me, the 950 passes muster, at least in that regard.