bbarden- I don't think I saw that. And I just went through this again with:

1) 950's internal tones
2) Avia digitally to the 950
3) Avia through the 5.1 analog inputs
4) Chesky Ultimate DVD-A test disc through the 5.1 analog inputs

(Confirmed that for whataver reason, DVD-A/SACD LFE level is 10 dB lower, and hence you have to account for that in the player's analog output, compared to DD/DTS. A "standards" problem maybe.)


SH? Will? Obie?

My 45a does not exhibit the -10db LFE characteristic. In fact, I run -6db on Sub and +6 on all others to reduce the LFE output. My 45a has a white dot next to the LFE output, I think this version has the bass boosted +10db.

I can't say as I don't use the LFE output, nor bass management in the traditional sense. The LFE should be relatively quiet anyway as it is low pass filtered. I don't use the 5.1 inputs either for SACD or DVD-A : I use them for my mixing console which doesn't have referenced levels, so I can't tell one way or the other. Sorry!!

bbarden- How did you set your LFE level?

Avia won't work as it is a DD disc. You have to use something like:

http://www.chesky.com/catalog/body_catalogdtl.cfm?PRODUCT=100274&CATEGORY=2

The test tone on the 45a for the sub won't work either.

Here's a thread at HTF with more info:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115080

Kevin, can you tell me what test stuff is on that Chesky disc? My emails to chesky for that info have gone unanswered.

soundhound, just out of curiosity, what is the non-traditional bassmanagement that you use?

I don't use it at all. I have tri-amped front speakers crossed over with an electronic crossover at 1200Hz (4th order Linkwitz Riley) and at 60Hz (2nd order Butterworth low pass only to the subs). The LFE gets mixed in with the main left and right feeds by selecting "no subwoofer" in the 950. I use four 18" subs, two per side, in stereo.

I use this setup because my system has several signal paths, one being through a mixing console, and I need the use of the subs on everything. I like stereo subs because there is low frequency content on things like pipe organ recordings, and the general low frequency 'ambience' in the recording site that I would rather have mix acoustically in my room, and not electronically to mono. Case in point: spaced omnidirectional mikes in large recording venues - low frequency sources to one side reach the near side mike before the far side mike. The delay could be the better part of a wavelength at say, 30Hz.



[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited January 05, 2003).]

Soundhound- One question:

I too have Klipsch speakers and have the hiss issue. I currently have the mid-June modification 950 that is "slightly" (1-2 dB) quieter than my original mid-May unit. I had a "Red Dot" that, while quieter from about -15 to +10, actually had more hiss (the non-volume dependant variety) from -15 on down. That has been my issue. Virtually all of my listening is done with the volume control between -15 and -35. Changing trim levels does not effect this "noise floor". From your early posts on this thread it sounds like this "noise floor" is now volume dependant. On my current unit the hiss IS volume dependant from about -15 on up to +10, but not below that. Is the hiss level on the new unit actually volume dependant in the range of -15 on down? By the way, I believe I calibrated my trims with the volume at -15 and to 70dB on the meter (easier to read 70dB on the meter than 75dB from across the room). This should give me the same results as calibrating to 75dB with the volume control set to -10. My trims are 0 for both mains, +1 for the center, +4 for right surround, +5 for left surround, and +5 for sub. Of course the sub level is arbitrary since it has it's own level control. Using the "Get Over It" track from the Eagles Hell Freezes Over DVD, I get an AVERAGE SPL at my seat of 95 dB with the volume set to -15. That is LOUD! I know your speakers are even more efficient than mine, so I know that you understand the importance of the hiss level at lower volume settings. If the hiss is not volume control dependant in this range, I assume that having trim level effect hiss level, and the 4 dB "real" improvement would be worthwhile by themselves. Do you think there actually is a 12 dB "effective" reduction in the -15 to -35 range (or on the new unit, this would be roughly -23 to -43 if calibrated the same)? If so, that would be HUGE! I guess, put another way, I listen at average SPL's at my seat generally between 75 dB and 95 dB. Do you think I should see 12 dB of diffence at my seat?

Thanks for your insight, and yes, I concur, I believe you should be in the Outlaw "Hall of Fame" along with Gonk, and I believe Miss Lena should be "Entertainer of the Year".

- Skyfish

[This message has been edited by Skyfish (edited January 05, 2003).]

Skyfish:

The hiss is volume control dependent from the top +10 on down to about -15 or so, at which point the noise from the 950 itself measures about -90db (an absolute measurement - not signal to noise ratio), which is very quiet. The trims also effect noise, but throughout their whole range: they don't plateu off at the lowest setting. The 950 now has about 8db more gain too.

All this does add up to a 10-12db or so subjective reduction in hiss. On my own horns, I could hear hiss from 5 feet away, and now that same level of hiss is somewhat less than a foot away. Pretty blasted good.

As I posted earlier in this thread, to get the benefit of this noise reduction however, you must re-calibrate your system to take into account the 8db of extra gain, which essentially 'turns down your volume control', which lowers hiss which is now volume control dependent.

I don't know about how your calibration with the volume control at -15 and using 70db as a reference would work, given your speakers. I would recommend using the conventional "00" setting on the volume control and 75db, and lowering the trims to get the proper level. You will find that they will end up about 8db lower than before, which is essentially turning the volume, and noise down by that amount.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited January 05, 2003).]

I will let you all know tomorrow, after my replacement comes, what happens in my system.

Mine comes Tuesday so I definitely will comment on this post since I instigated the whole thing 6 pages back.

Scott