Forgive me, but how do you tell if you have a new-new non-hiss 950?

My 950's serial number is 020300... (there's no xx-xxx... anywhere).

Rather than hissing, it seems to just have a pretty bad S/N Ratio, nowhere near the 100dB ratio listed in the book.

It seems like the noise generated is a few (maybe 3-5) dbs louder than the Sony 333-ES receiver (powered by the same amps) that the unit is replacing (which I believe had ~97dB S/N Ratio).

I sit about 3 feet from my surrounds, and it's definately noticable during quiet sequences. I guess I'm just not sure if this noise is acceptable or not?

I'm using 2 3-channel Earthquake Cinenova Grande amplifiers (which each are rated 113 dBs S/N and are QUIET when the 950 is switched off) powering Paradigm Reference speakers.

The noise, or hiss, definately gets louder when the volume is increased. I've calibrated my trims to output the internal tones at 75 dbs SPL with the volume at 00, and when I crank the volume to 00db, the noise is VERY loud, even from the other room.

And, sorry if I'm being obtuse here Soundhound, but what's the point of calibrating your system to output 75dBs at 00? You wind up just increasing your listening volume and therefore increasing the noise...

It seems there is definately something amiss somewhere in your system! You might call Outlaw to confirm that you have a newer unit, but based on the serial number, I think you do.

First of all, the point of calibration to 75db is so that when the volume control is set at "00", you will be playing back DVD movies at the same level as they were originally mixed at in the dubbing theatre. If you have done this correctly, movies and CDs will be playing back very loud at "00".

You don't give specifics on how you calibrated your levels. Did you do the calibration with the sound level meter at your normal listening position? Was the meter set to "slow" response, and "C" weighting? Is your meter in good shape, not being dropped or some other damage?

The new 950 has about 8db more gain for the same setting on the volume control setting verses the old 950. The whole point is that you can set the volume control 8db lower for the same loudness, and correspondingly reduce the hiss by at least 8db because the volume of the hiss lowers as the volume knob is turned down. There were other improvements also, including the upgrading of some of the analog ICs to ones spec'd for lower noise. If you don't take into consideration this 8db difference and lower the volume control correspondingly, the new 950 will SEEM to have almost as much hiss as the old one. If you properly calibrate your levels and take advantage of this 8db of essentially "free" gain, the new 950 will hiss a lot less than the older one.

Do your power amps have input volume controls?

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited January 01, 2003).]

It seems there is definately something amiss somewhere in your system! You might call Outlaw to confirm that you have a newer unit, but based on the serial number, I think you do.

First of all, the point of calibration to 75db is so that when the volume control is set at "00", you will be playing back DVD movies at the same level as they were originally mixed at in the dubbing theatre. If you have done this correctly, movies and CDs will be playing back damn loud at "00".

You don't give specifics on how you calibrated your levels. The new 950 has about 8db more gain for the same setting on the volume control setting verses the old 950. The whole point is that you can set the volume control 8db lower for the same loudness, and correspondingly reduce the hiss by at least 8db because the volume of the hiss lowers as the volume knob is turned down. There were other improvements also, including the upgrading of some of the analog ICs to ones spec'd for lower noise. If you don't take into consideration this 8db difference and lower the volume control correspondingly, the new 950 will SEEM to have almost as much hiss as the old one. If you properly calibrate your levels and take advantage of this 8db of essentially "free" gain, the new 950 will hiss a lot less than the older one.

Do your power amps have input volume controls?

It's possible you don't have a newer unit. When did you buy it?

Thanks for your help. By the way, I take my earlier statement about the hiss being very pronounced at 00 back, I was testing it on an input that had nothing connected to it, and there must have been interference or something. I paused a dvd and raised the volume to 00, and the hiss didn't seem to raise noticably.

Now, back to your questions:

Yes, I've calibrated my system with a radio shack analog SPL meter, which is in good working condition, C weighted and Slow.

I did calbirate my system to output the test tones at 75dBs w/ the volume at 00. I did this exactly the way you described earlier, by turning down the trim -8 on each channel. Worked like a charm.

No, my amps do not have volume controls on them.

I guess my question is, I don't see how this is "free" gain. Since I reduced the trims -8, I have to turn the volume up 8dbs, which in turn raises the noise level. That's all.

I bought my unit from someone I trust who beta tested the unit. He told me it was the 4th version of the 950. I believe him, but I just wanted to know if that is the newest of the new 950s.

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by jgubman (edited January 01, 2003).]

jgubman,

Gonk, who frequently posts here, had three 950's, each with S/N's like yours (020300... with no dash). I believe Gonk said his three were manufactured before the red dot fix was put into production. If yours is of the same generation, you perhaps don't have the latest SH Hiss fixed 950. But there may be other factors at play besides the original serial number.

Good luck!

Will

[This message has been edited by Will (edited January 01, 2003).]

Yes, it sounds like you may not have the latest issue of the 950. If you bought it from someone else, there's almost no way it could be the newest one, as they only came out a couple weeks ago. I'd call Outlaw and sort it out.

The gain is "free" in the sense that it was accomplished without an increase in noise. Usually, the higher the gain, the higher the noise. They got around this by using quieter IC Op Amps in the analog gain stages.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited January 01, 2003).]

I contacted Outlaw with my serial #, and Scott told me he'd put me on the list for a replacement, so I guess I didn't have the latest rev. of the 950.

Also, turns out the hiss in my unit does NOT increase or decrease w/ the volume (even above 00db).

Thanks to everybody for your help!

And, for what it's worth, I don't think the current level of "hiss" on my 950 is unacceptable or anything. I definately DON'T think it matches the specs in the manual (which indicate a S/N Ratio of 100dB on the digital inputs), but it's not that bad.

My first DD receiver (granted it was ~$500) had (if memory serves) similar "hiss".

my older DD reciever (a kenwood vr-209) is dead silent in any mode with the volume turned up all the way....

my center chanel is an infinity cc-3, fairly sensitive, my others are Magnepan's for the front and Jamo 200's for the rears both of which are in the 80's (88db for jamo and probably less for the maggie's) for sensitivity......


I'm lurking around here because I'm trying to convince my wife that we NEED a 950 with 2 of the new monoblocks and the 750 ...my thoughts are to put the mono's on the maggies large feet and use as short a speaker wire as is possible... then run the surrounds off the 5 channel......

For those with 'version 3', I've found the LFE/Subwoofer output is about 8db lower than either my original or red-dot unit. Once I calibrated the sub with the new unit, I believe the bass response is smoother, tighter.

Soundhound, Kevin C. Brown...have either of you (or others with the lastest rev) noticed this?

I've got about 100 hours on the new unit, and so far I'm liking it very much, the S/N is substantially better than my red-dot unit. This one is a keeper!

Brett