I hear so much about the wait and sending back the models. My question is does anyone have one setup and is enjoying it? Let me Know. Thanks

I am.

Me too. Was reminded how happy this evening when I sat down and listened to a CD for a while (haven't had much chance to listen to music lately). Very happy.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I am very happy with the 950.

I have posted that I had a slight hiss issue with my 950 and elected to replace it with the Red Dot when it was offered. Believe me I liked everything about my first 950 and like the Red Dot even more because it is so quiet. I love music and the 950 has made it even more enjoyable. My passion is home theater and the 950 stands with the best of them. Having good balance in my system is the key and the Outlaw was a good choice for me. For the price of 899 it is a super value. I could afford to spend more but why. You ask are their any happy owners of the 950. Sure hundreds of them and more everyday. They are just to busy enjoying them right now to respond to your post.

A W E S O M E .... Best piece of audio equipment I have ever purchased. I actually listen to music 4+ hours a day while I work (home office). Never did that on my old Carver pre/pro. Wife actually enjoys watching DVD's again.

the 950 does for me everything evryone else says. sacd, dts music video, movies...even cd's. yes, yes, yes. (do you work for outlaw?)

I only enjoy my Outlaw 950 EVERY TIME I TURN IT ON.

Totally kicks hindquarters with home theater content. And the new version of the 950 is also a very elegant two-channel music preamp, as well. (And I'm a vinyl listener as well as CD -- and soon to be SACD.)

My Outlaw is sitting down with some very good colleagues -- Aragon, Carver, SVS, Levinson, Rotel, Panasonic, Sony, Pioneer LD -- and it truly holds up its end of the bargain.

I will let you know in 24 to 72 hrs. (Mine is on its way.)

To be honest? I view it as a no brainer. 30 days to decide to keep it or send it back. Can't beat that.

Happy too. Going on 4 months now.

BB

Another happy camper here for the last week with new 950 and HK PA5800 Amps.

2 channel sound is very good and 5.1 decoding is incredible.

I am coming from a Denon 3300 as a Pre/Pro, HK 500, Pioneer Elite 24, and Yamaha 795.

I did like the HK 500's 2 channel sound, but the 950 is as good to me with a little more detail throughout the entire soundstage.

Love it, but not wild about the remote. Thank god I have my Marantz 2000 and its learned all the 950's codes but one!

Outstanding piece of equipment. I just received it and hooked it up this week. Still playing/tweaking, but I am floored.

Pauls,
I did answer your question about happiness with the 950 (I am) but...
I'm not sure how long you've been viewing this forum. No matter...welcome aboard.
The wait problem appears solved. I just saw where someone reserved Sept. 2 and it has been shipped. Alot of people did wait along time for theirs, but people ordering now should receive a 950 in short order.
The ones that got sent back, for the most part, are the original people who received the original design way earlier this year. There was a problem. It was expressed by the owners (not all of them). It was addressed by Outlaw, and we are now reaping the benefits.
Does that help??

Got mine yesterday and set it up last night. Still needs tweaking but so far sounds great in all modes with my Carver Amp and Atlantic Tech speakers.

Like Everett I'm not crazy about the remote.
I am struggling to program in the codes to navigate the menus and REC/FF/REW/Pause features on my RCA DSS Ultimate TV box. I also wish there was an additional component out for the DVD Recorder.

It is an excellent prepro. I replaced a Parasound prepro/dd processor pair that I paid $2500 for 4 years ago. The 950 outperforms it in every aspect by a long shot. More important, even my wife noticed the performance differences and is enjoying the 950 as much as I am. The next time I think about upgrading I will definitly check out the Outlaw products first.

Enjoy - didjdude

Everett,
So how did you do it? I have a Marantz 2000 as well but can't get it to take the volume controls from Outlaw remote consistently,. The best I have done is get it to work only with the DSS as source (not sure why it won't take it under CD or AMP). Even then it won't allow you to hold down the up or down vol button to change - it only sends a single db increment at a time. What's your secret programing method?

I've been extremely pleased with the 950. And mine is one out of the early shipments.

ENM: Using the point of my paper clip, I press the MODE key to learn and place the 950 3 inches behind the RC2000. I press the sorsorce key then then the key i wish to learn on the marantz, then the corresponding key on the 950. It will light up and ask me to name the key D1 thru D8. I then depress the mode and test it. A long process. Same on ANY key. On volume I identify the source then Hit , say Vol up on the RC2000 then Vol up on the 950. I created some AMp functions on my remote(2000) like TRIM, DD, DTS, CIRS, BYPS, etc. I have been able to learn every command from the 950 except DSS. Yes, the RC2000 will recognise DSS and do all DSS functions. But, it will not learn the double click on the source key. When I had my AV550, you could double touch any source key and it would present it on screen. I can do this on all other components etc DSS. For example: if I am watch Dss and wish to go to DVD, I press DVD twice on the RC2000 and it takes me there. Likewise on the other sources/ CD, LD, Tuner,VCR etc. But not DSS. When I click on DSS twice, nothing appears on the screen, or , more precisely, IT STAYS AT THE SOURCE IM AT. I have no explanation. If Im wtching a DVD and wish to go to DSS, I have to hit OSD (my 950 menu I taught it) , then channel up or down to change the input. I hope I havent confused you more, but, in short, the RC2000 is a great remote and its will learn 99% of everything but it takes a lot of time! Have fun!

old model..enjoyed it..new little-red-dotted-green-power-buttoned-love-machine..kicks the llamas butt or however the saying goes.

||luv it||

[This message has been edited by scooter (edited September 22, 2002).]

Love my 950/770 combo. Who was it that said the 950 "died from a thousand paper cuts"?
DmC

I mentioned this a while back (ages ago, actually) in an old thread , but AudioReview has a review page for the 950. Unfortunately, they put it under "Preamplifiers" instead of "A/V Preamplifiers" so it can be hard to find -- here's a link if any new 950 users want to post feedback. I haven't used AudioReview a lot lately (not many upgrades lately), but I have gotten some good info from there in the past.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Ecstatic

Got one of the original "hiss" models and even loved that. (It was only audible from listening position at setting above zero, and at that point the source material was so loud you'd hardly notice).

Got the "red dot" replacement last week. Hiss gone.

The unit is very audiophile "analytical". It extracts all the information that's there. Every little nuance of sound--and spatially presents it so each little sound is localized in some space. Sounds very clean -- as it should. What goes in comes out, which is what front end equipment is all about. Looking for a little added warmth or some other embellishment, go elsewhere.

It's an astonishing piece of equipment for the price.

A brief note to those who have been incessantly belly aching over missed deadlines and stopped production lines. I think the Outlaws were probably a bit too optimistic in announcing ship dates, probably because they calculated them assuming everything went according to schedule, which of course it never does. But I congratulate them for their open approach, especially acknowleding that some of the original units had a hiss problem and replacing at no cost.

BTW combined with the 770 this thing really kicks

No, I don't enjoy my 950... not right now.

That's because I'm at work and it is therefore too far away to enjoy.

In about an hour or so, I'll be home, though, and then I think I'll enjoy it.

It is a fine piece of hardware. I just need a bigger amp so that I can enjoy it here at work too.

Then maybe my friends down the street can enjoy it, too.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Gonk,

Thanks for the recommendation! We would love to see everyone's reviews on AudioReview .

Great topic Pauls.

Best,

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott (edited September 24, 2002).]

I have one of the non-hissing 2nd release model and I love it. It's so much better then any receivers I've owned in the past.

For the most part, yes.

Since I couldn't afford a super-deluxe pre-amp, I wanted to upgrade to DTS-ES & DD EX & PL II, and had no wish to return to receivers it seemed like a pretty good deal for the money.

However, after living with it for a while I miss some features that even some mid-priced receivers have: memory for calibration settings per audio format and digital and analog input, individual speaker delay settings for all channels (not just a select few), 6.1/7.1 mode that can be set to ON all the time, direct 6 or 8 channel analog input with absolutely no bass management applied when not wanted, software/format upgradeability via a PC port or CD disc (some companies are now putting the upgrades on a hybrid CD disc so when you switch on the flash memory upgrade mode and play it through a CD or DVD player with digital output it uploads the data into the processor as slick as a whistle), etc.

If I get to the point where I can afford a product with both the audio fidelity and the features I'm really looking for then I'll move up and maybe relegate the Model 950 to the bedroom or sell it.

Dan

[This message has been edited by Dan Hitchman (edited September 24, 2002).]

Hey guys, those of you who have taken time to write reviews in the past, here or at other sites. I just started a thread here:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97592
If they leave it titled so...and please don't snicker at mine too hard. I like to read, the details of others experience’s and thoughts and learning curves with the 950. (and am scared of trying to verbalize details with my inept terminology...need to get that book Outlaw suggested, what was it ....Mr. Manners guide to AV etiquette and proper terminology... )

I have AHBL on the ‘western’ front right now, and not very much time to surf. Hoping to get some talk going in a couple of convenient locations, easy to keep track of.

But I did not think it ‘nice’ to come and snitch your reviews without permission and take them for a walk around the block to another site to get the ball rolling.

If your registered (or not, - its easy) post em, to get things going....(and so mine does not stick out like a sore thumb all lonesome!) If you don't mind, and have the time?!

don't wait till they have to pry your cold dead ears away from your 950's.

I just got mine today and considering how electronically challenged I am, I was amazed at how easy it was to set the unit up. the directions were great and easy to follow. I am only using the unit for theater sound but no matter what I played on what mode I was very happy with the result.There was a new-found richness to the sound field that was very pleasing to my ears, anyway. And DTS! My lord. It was the first exposure to it for me and I can't quite explain how wonderful it was. I watched the opening scene of Gladiator and sat there with my mouth agape. I had to turn down the volume because it was so, well, mammoth, I guess you could say. And I haven't even calibrated my speakers yet. The Outlaws should be proud of this unit. It is worth every penny.

Well Lena - guess you can just say I'm a little embarassed at the advice I tried givin ya over there. It just I gave up on my 950 posts over there awhile back. Didnt recognize you over there, crap your posts over here ar probably the most enjoying to read. Lets see were your thread heads over there. I guess I might of soured it a little bit, for that I'm sorry:>

I have had mine for months. I love it.

------------------
Stott

SLL, Well done! I would like to award you with the HT Silver Star for valor shown in moving right up to the front lines to take on what can sometimes be a tough challenge over there. And doing so without your flak-jacket! Well written and fun to read- as always!

Aww, they don’t scare me! She says with bravado as she darts behind the tank praying their arsenal does not include armor-piercing capabilities.
I have to admit to days of thinking: what a bunch of eejits!. But if I was fair even while lurking during great John Wayne’ish- whole town brawls, - Everyone in the mud pit and petticoats flying! I usually still glean a tidbit or two out of the melee.

I have a purely selfish ulterior motive however. First, its irksome those which are delighted, don’t post, for fear of the bullies. Second: - I want Outlaw to sell loads, so this very interesting trend, - of bucking the industry trends – will produce many years of high value toys to play with.

Well Lena,

I post every so often on HTF, and I check in there nearly every day to see what the newest topics are. Many people there have never owned an Outlaw, but for whatever reason, decide to trash Outlaw and their products at any chance. Welcome to the HTF world, but don't worry too much. I will always read your thoughts with interest, as will many others who value an honest opinion.

Bill Polley

Hello Everyone, (Especially Miss Lena)
Didn't quite know where to post just to say hello, but I spent so many hours here reading, and listening to your views, arguing, but mostly just enjoying conversing with y'all, that I had to stop in.
I still am an Outlaw booster. I introduced a friend to the gear and he now is the proud and pleased owner of a 1050. It fit his needs exactly. I'm looking forward to new Outlaw products to purchase. With much debate to ensue I'm sure!
I'm fortunate enough to be heading off to Poipu next week on a long put-off vacation. I'll miss my HT while I'm gone. (NOT!)
In that vein, I'm still lovin' the Aragon. The forum at Klipsch (Aragon Mondial) is informative, but very impersonal.
'till next time ,
Mix

I do think that the unfortunate delay with the 950 hurt its chances a lot. For instance, I was seriously considering a 950/755 combo, but I didn't want to wait and paid, instead, more for the combo I bought. I bought a used Proceed AVP and new Lexicon NT512 5-channel amp. Bryston was making amps for Lexicon and Bryston isn't owned by Harmon Kardon. HK decided to use someone they do own to make amps for Lexicon, so the Lexicon dealers had a fire sale on these amps. I ended up paying about twice as much for each piece as I would've paid for the "equivalent" Outlaw. The 950 does have more features than the preamp I bought, though.

EWS: Speaking of The Gladiator, try the chapter about 40 min into the film (the blade scene) and listen at the sword being hurled from center rear to center front in the DTS-ES format. One of my favorites and, I think, is a defining illustration about what true 6.1 discrete is all about!

You dog!. Can I carry the luggage? Bring you drinks with little umbrellas?

Last time I was on Big Island, it was not very touristy (thank goodness). I image it's changed dramaticly. Enjoy Kauai, and watch out for hurricanes!

OK, thought I'd weigh in here since I've been active on this forum in the past.

I've owned the original, and now am on my Red Dot version. My assoc equipment is B&W 804's mains and other B&W center and surrounds, Sony 9000 DVD/SACD player, HSU sub, Rotel 985 5 channel amp (and I'm waiting for my new Sony FP..pant pant pant).

Though my last pre/pro was a Rotel prologic (so limited experience with DD DTS, etc) I'd have to say I'm extremely satisfied with the sound quality of the 950 for Home Theater.

I don't care much about features that don't directly impact sound quality, and I'm plenty pleased with the sound quality I'm getting. I've mentioned here before that I've been lukewarm on listening to music through the 950, but in its price range I've also auditioned the Rotel 1066 and felt the same way.

Considering the competition and my needs, I still think the 950 is an absolute bargain. And rather than pop for a $4000 model that does both music and HT well, I'll happily keep my 950 look for an inexpensive way to connect my Rotel pre into the system for the best of both worlds.

Heartily recommended!

everett: thanks for the suggestion. I am in the process of adding two NHT SB-1 speakers for my 7.1 setup and Gladiator will be the first dvd to be viewed. But so far I have watched a few fav, Die Hard 2, Castaway, Chicken Run and now I am making a Christmas list of DTS dvds as suggestions for my family to ask Santa to bring me to replace the DD ones I already have. I love this unit.

I've mentioned the small problem with hiss that I have in other threads, and my comments about the ergonomically challenged remote (IMO). Figured I'd put a positive comment about sound quality somewhere.

Listening to the remixed disc of the 2-CD remastered Machine Head by Deep Purple tonight. Not "critical" listening, just relaxin' at the end of the day with some good tunes, reading the newspaper. Highway Star power ups (if you're familiar with how the song begins), and all of the sudden, I hear a clicking noise coming predominantly out of my right speaker. I'm thinking, Jeez, is my DVD player skipping? Is the 950 skipping? I listen some more, and discover that the "clicking" is the actual sound of the drum stick as it hits that "step" cymbal. (You know, the cymbal that you also control with your foot. "Hi hat" ?) Not the cymbal crash itself, but the drum stick *hitting* the cymbal. I was really amazed. A 30 year recording, and I could hear that amount of detail. I was smiling.

I don't know, maybe the 5th or 6th time I've listened to this disc. Never noticed the clicking with my prior setup: Sony TA-E9000ES + Pioneer DV-05. But heard this time with the 950 and the 45a.

I've had mine since late April, early May. Love it. Have never even considered returning it.

Just my 2 cents.

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pat----

email: pat@sklenar.info ---===--- home page: Grumpy's Lair

Its good to see you back Pat. I realize you have been busy but it doesn't seem like the Outlaw forum without you and Gonk posting regularly. So are you enjoying the Les Miserables Concert CD with your 950?

kevincbrown:
TWO cd set? Why are there two cds for a one cd album? I haven't seen this one. You sould get the multichannel DVD-A version!

On the original topic, I am VERY happy with the 950, no hiss, great sound, even the tuner is pretty good!

SOP- It's the remastered Machine Head. I have an import from the UK, although I believe that Rhino offers it in the states now.

One disc is simply a remaster of the album we all know and love.

The 2nd disc, is remixed. Different guitar solos, song beginings, and endings, drum parts, etc, on a lot of the tracks. It's like hearing the lp again for the very 1st time

The lack of the remixes is exactly why I passed on the DVD-A version...

Just had to drop in an update. I think the 950 is just great. I am glad I waited and checked around and read up on the available units while I was getting ready to upgrade. After adding the 950, then my two new NHT SB-1 surrounds and my new B&K amplifier, my dream ( Ihave been working on this since 1993) room is complete (maybe for now) I have viewed Blade II and The Haunting in a double feature and I have never heard sound fields as awesome as those. I am glad there are so many knowledgable people on these sights who have helped me figure out what i needed to do to make everything work out. Just as a side note, I found a Godzilla, Mothra and Ghidrah beanie baby set at a flea market over the weekend and they now proudly on display in my theater. Sometimes it really is the little things that count. (now i just need to buy DTS versions of Saving Private Ryan, umm...Jurassic Park and the Lost World and...) it never ends, does it?

I'm a happy owner of model 950, Got it 6 months ago,I did not experience about the hissing problem (lucky me)Gladiator and Blade II sound great in DTS es, I had about 10 DVD-audio and I enjoin everyone of them,I have been re-listening all my collection CDs in bypass 2 channel mode in last couple month
my SET Zen amp has a chance to take a short breaktime....My moderate system includes Pre-amp 950 (upgrade from Denon 3801 as the pre) ATI 1505 Amp, NHT vt2.4 for front, NHT AC2 for center, VS 2.4 for all surround sound, Velodyne FSR 18 sub,Video source from DVD JVC D-723 and Pioneer SD 643 HD5 rear projector, both got from...Costco.Anyone has the same Amp and speakers to use with 950 please share the experience.I will put a full review for 950 on Audio review website soon

Glade to hear about Blade 2. Its on my list of DTS-ES choices. I agree the DTS version of THE HAUNTING is awesome. Not too crazy about the movie, but it is a beautiful transfer and sound is as good as it gets. Its the one, I think, definitive illustrations of the less compressed signals that DTS offers. I wasnt convinced that DTS was superior in the bass region, as I have compared a few before, but, The Haunting, changed all that. It gave my M&K a real workout as all my door jams were rattling like never before. I do have a suggestion for a great demo DVD. Its Mannheim Steamroller's Fresh Aire 8. It might not be your type of music, althought its very diverse. It comes with a DVD audio and a HDCD disk as well. These guys really care about the art of sound and its full of active surround info, in 5.1, and incredible deep bass! Good listening!

Just wanted to say a big thanks to Outlaw myself. I chose Outlaw after some careful consideration of myriad options on the market. I have had the hiss issue myself, and followed it intensely. While I do not feel I can speak for what real ears are hearing in some setups. I do feel that Outlaw as compared to numerous models and systems is under an abnormally strict scrutiny where hiss is concerned. There have been too many posting that after reading posts on the subject went ‘looking’ for it in other systems and found it.

In my setup the hiss was more pronounced the first weeks, but has been reduced so remarkably after tweaking the system over time, that it is less than other units I have heard who’s make/model I have never seen mentioned in conjunction with the subject of ‘hiss’.

I was extremely pleased with the performance of the 950 in HT which was my initial priority when I began to setup this system. I was not happy with it the first week and it took some major tweaking to get it to how I thought it should sound after the long buildup. I never dreamt that the adept handling capabilities of the Outlaw would lead me back to reaquire a long neglected passion for 2-channel and the subtleties and nuances of simply enjoying ‘music’ Vs the HT pit we families who live by DVD slowly fall into.

I just picked up a pair of Vienna Beethoven’s after yearning to pair the Outlaw with some speakers with more range than my current set of satellites.

I have to admit to some trepidation when coming home with the Beethoven’s, which I choose over
Klipsch, Martin Login Odyssey's, Sonus Faber Grand Piano’s, Boston A, and Infinity for their smoothness and refinement. A sense of “odd match” crossed my mind as it did when I first heard of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s engagement to Maria Shriver. Would the ‘Outlaw’ step on the toes of the Duchess?

I am more impressed with this Outlaw 950/770 than before, I could spend a lot more on the pre-pro side for much less performance and handling. Since I tended to class the Outlaw as the brute force and muscle behind the successful new HT setup here at home, Like Arnold’s tango in a tux in "True Lies", the Outlaw proved it has grace to match its power.
I appreciate Outlaw for it’s unrestricted no-views barred but generally well-mannered and helpful forum and for its product line. I expected the Vienna’s to be of a nice –well rounded quality for their price, I did not expect so much out of the Outlaw. Many thanks for reviving the fun, the versatility and the seduction of music.

posted this at another forum but just have to add to it. I'm becoming ticked at Outlaw for one thing, I'm spending way too much in this area of my life right now and the Outlaw started it all for me (this renewed excitement, Plus keeping me up half the night last night listening to the VB's.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited November 03, 2002).]

Love my too, had it for little over a month. Outstanding customer service. No hiss. The only problem i have is every time i turn the 950 off my speakers make a popping noise, i'm using Cition 7.1 trigger on from the 950. Beside the popping noise, the 950 is an excellent choise. Worth the wait!

I have had a few problems with my 950, but they have been mostly "User Error." Other than that, I think I got my money's worth. I also ordered a bunch of cables which I also like very much, although I wish they had a greater varity of lenghts.

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MeanGene's Home Theater

[This message has been edited by MeanGene (edited November 03, 2002).]

hey, MG: did you put the handles on your phase??? i have 2 of those from the old days. i'm not using them, but i never saw a 400 with handles. anyway....brings back memories to see one.

They both came with the handles. The Phase linear also has a wood box for it. I found out recently that my Phase Linear is the "Laboratory Standard", which has better heat sinks. This is good because they are also infamously known as "Flame Linear" for there lack of grace when over-loaded.

There were two versions of heat sinks used on the 400. Early 400 series 1's had a approx. 4-3/4" wide heat sinks and the words "Four hundred Watts RMS" on the front panel. Later 400 series 1's had an additional center heat sink and transistor covers with the words "Laboratory Standard Amplifier" on the front panel.

I have seen some esoteric tube amps, but nothing looks as awesome as the Mesa/Boogie's 12 6L6's all lit up and running full bore.

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MeanGene's Home Theater


[This message has been edited by MeanGene (edited November 05, 2002).]

This post is a question back to Little Miss Lena on the quote "after some tweaking over time". I have posted under "To Hiss or Not to Hiss" my initial experience with the model 950, less than stellar so far. I too have the hiss problem, or perceived problem. This hiss is very audible at the listening area about 10 feet away. Do you have any suggestions on some "tweaks" that may help reduce this or is it worth trying another model 950, maybe I got a bad apple?

Scott - what I did to lower the hiss level in my system:

Amp - My Parasound has adjustible gains. Reduced them by 25% and hiss was greatly reduced. In dead silent room (night)/at +10 volumn/analog source selected nothing playing/hiss heard from < than 1 foot.

Interesting point/unhooking Amp from 950, so Amp + speakers only in chain, gains at 100%, hiss was heard at < 1 foot/almost ear to tweeter. Plug 950 in/gain at 100% hiss probably heard +3 feet out (seating is about 10 feet). By reducing gain 25%/I achieved about what I heard Amp/speaker only-amp gains 100%.

If you dont have adjustable gains to play with? Also, try not to "listen" for the hiss/instead listen to your source. Most (KB excepted) do not hear hiss OVER a source playing, only with no source.

Davis S,



I also use Parasound amps. Did you know that when you reduce the gain control on thje amp you may actually be reducing the Class A output % of the amp?

The reason I like the Parasound is because of the high Class A bias and high current. Because of this I run the level controls at full output for the full Class A bias benefit (Class A is said to be smoother output).

You asked about tweaks
This is what I have going on. Right now my first 950 (the hissier one) is in my rack. AND it has LESS hiss than it did. If I tweaked pertinent to the reduction I have experinced I’m at a loss how to tell you to duplicate. Realize that this was MY first hands on foray into AV. By that statement I mean….I’ve been listening to sound all my life. Music is a necessity in the background of my days. The 950 purchase, (and shortly before) was the first time in my life, I began to pay attention to how to set up a AV system, and why different setups (brands/models/config menus) affect the ‘quality’ of the sound.

Since the 950’s arrival, I have learned to move speaker terminations/route interconnects/calibrate and navigate system setup menus. Source/inputs/SPL/Distance/crossovers/tone controls (treble/bass)/SP modes. The whole side of AV that I left to the ‘men’ till now.

I have changed and played with settings in so many different configurations that there is no way I’d be able to draw a ‘backtrack’ map. Many of these settings were changed over the last months due to advice that was given directly and/or reading posts and contemplating for myself what to attempt and after some critical beginner’s mistakes. (Which most here, with much experience would have skipped over entirely) Ex: Boosting my surrounds way out of proportion, in my excitement over playing with DTS and DD 3.2/1.

If any of the above had an effect on hiss, you explain it me? I know that I (as anyone who loves and listens with heightened attention to all music reproduction) had had opinions on the ability of any system to reproduce it. This setup sounds simply good/better/best/excellent. I never contemplated upon the many variables, which can effect any systems output. Which brands more ably pass the sound and how to tweak any given system to its fullest potential.

When I mentioned I was not happy with the 950 the first weeks, this feeling was not centered on the subject of hiss, but on the general experience of the sound in total. My husband, (who has not become involved due to his own major project at the time) and I both found the 950 fairly flat and unappealing out of the box. (But I set the menus) To be honest I was happier with the output of my old Pro-Logic Receiver. As I learned to navigate through calibration/distances/crossovers and brought these parameters in line with what was best matched with my speakers, each step forward, was as if I had unboxed a new unit. Every other foray into setup, the sound improved dramatically. Could any of this affect the level of my hiss? I don’t’ know, if I had more experience in setting up a system, I could more easily tell you, I changed this and it did that, since I would have been familiar with a baseline average setup and more quickly moved forward from that starting point. As it was, I used up many days, (what’s a interconnect?) learning the bare bones basics. I don’t know what all I’ve done as I’ve reset the system countless times.

Burn in. A subject that can be debated hotly both sides by some engineers. (Whether or not it occurs and can effect sound) In my experience it does occur to a ‘degree’ in systems. But then I have also proved to myself that a change in interconnects does have a net (positive or negative) affect on the quality of sound and picture. I came to this opinion by changing brands out with absolutely no other adjustments made concurrently to the system, and will beg to differ with any (many) who state it does not. While I understand the tricks the brain can play with ears. Changing my component cables alone between 3 brands visually affected color scale on the display to a dramatic degree.

Leading to my contemplating whether there is a possibility that the 950’s burn-in has reduced its hiss over time.
How much effect I had on the distance out I was able to hear hiss by system configuration and how much is due to burn-in, I cannot judge. I could hear ‘hiss’ out to my seating. When the 950 first arrived. Hiss is NOT audible at seating under any source at this time (I have to go put my ear near speaker to find it now) this reduction occurred BEFORE last week’s speaker upgrade.

It crossed my mind when I installed the Beethoven’s that I would most likely increase the distance out of audible hiss than the distance heard with the less capable Def Techs. Counter to my expectations, Hiss has been reduced AGAIN.
I could hear hiss out approx. a foot on the Def Tech center just before the speaker upgrade. The hiss is closer to the fabric with the Vienna Acoustics.!?!

I will say this. When my hiss was audible to seating (to me) on certain passages played on certain sources, I had already made the decision to keep the 950 regardless. After comparisons to everything that I could request or heard playing at any electronic store I have frequented in the last months. Hiss or no, the 950 in totality beat the competition.

"you may actually be reducing the Class A output % of the amp"?

What does "may" mean in your sentence. My guess is it is or it isnt..... So question to others, is there any basis in bstn's comment? bstn not to discount your comment/or you, but you also dont strike me as an Outlaw supporter - I forget if you kept your 950?

Also, I must say, outside the reduced hiss, I "hear"/not measuring:> no decreased pleasures to my ears. In fact, I'm listening to Stevie Ray V - Couldnt Stand the Weather on SACD right now and man, it sounds good. Voodio Chile at 00 on the 950/f*&*ing A! If its better thru the Rotel/or the Anthem, I'll give em a f*&*&ing B and a f*&^%ing C!

"(Class A is said to be smoother output)". Same with "said" here, shouldnt it be is or isnt?? Mays ans saids are xactly what I've been spewing round here all along, cause all I can do is listen. As a numbers guy the "measurements", etc, I guess I just dont understand all of em. My ears though, they know.

"Voodio" - and no, I really can't spell:>

I talked at great length with Peter at Outlaw yesterday regarding the hiss issues with the 950. We actually got into some extremely technical issues regarding what is going on inside the unit, down to the component level. He explained to me what they have been doing to address the hiss issue, and I have to say that I am quite satisfied that they are indeed taking some definitive steps to make sure the problem is fixed once and for all.

I appreciate his openness in discussing the real 'nuts and bolts' problems with the 950, and I think that the units that will be forthcoming will meet the unit's original promise.

I can't divulge any timetable, but help is indeed on the way.

PS: Bill Gates has _not_ used his "Brain Assimilator" on me to make me say these things.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited November 08, 2002).]

I understand the importance of an NDA when talking about proposed or planned solutions, but after the fix can you divulge the culprit and solution?

Also, any info on what options existing owners would have available to them?

Charlie:

All I can say for existing owners, is to talk to Outlaw about this.

I don't think it would be wise to really get into exactly what is being done, now or later. Let's just say that they are more or less doing what _I_ would to, if I were called upon to find a fix for the problem. I am satisfied with that.

SLL, while I realize you have a different display unit, I'm still interested to hear which brand of component cables gave you the best image.

Norman, I'll look up my receipts to confirm. The original set were Monster’s. They came in dead last.
Then 2 sets I purchased were (I think) Better Cables? and the less expensive of these two won out. The monster’s had noticeably less detail and affected my ‘red’ the most. The mid priced set of the BC's? beat out the more expensive step-up by the same manufacture.
The difference between the 2 BC’s was most noticeable in how the 'reds were displayed, as the detail passed appeared not dissimilar. When calibrating this Display (Sony 60” LCD) it was easier to toe the red in with the mid-priced set. The higher priced cable almost created a ‘bloom’ in the reds

Thanks, Lena. Interesting. I currently have the Monsters, entirely because they were incorrectly priced in the store at $16. I've ordered component cables from Dayton / Partes Express. Be interesting to see if there is any visual difference although I hypothesize that projection is more sensitive than conventional CRT.

Norman, I found some paperwork which was incomplete. The Monsters were the Video 2 line for HDTV etc. The other two sets were 'Straight Wire'. Unfortunatly the receipts show the store number for them not the line names. I do know they had 3 Straight Wire choices on the board. A good/better/best.

I'm pretty sure that I bought the better/best and left the 'betters' on. Will check the interconnect the next time I'm behind the display. Just wanted to let you know I told you the wrong brand.

I would have purchased Outlaws, (I really like their interconnects) But I was purchasing the display and hooking it up for a Birthday present (for the husband) on one day. And although Outlaw is VERY fast on delivery. I did not think I could get them in 3 hours!
Edited to explain: I had the monsters in house when I purchased the display, but had recently develeped a bias against the entire Monster line. All of us (I believe) have various Monsters around because so many local retails carry that line only. Every time I have replaced a Monster (audio or visual), - I've felt their was noticable improvement to my system. So when I purchased the 'nice' LCD. I left the store with 2 choices to try, since I felt I would see an improvement over the Monsters.

I agree, the larger and LCD based could be more sensitive. (forgive did not spellck!)

[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited November 11, 2002).]

Lena
I too am using Straightwire component cables. I use the silver ones...whatever they are called? They replaced a set of low end Tributaires which in turn replaced a cheap set of Monster's. Definite improvements on each consecutive upgrade. And yes I did demo each cable before buying with a friend doing the plugging and unplugging Each upgrade yielded slight but still definite improvements in picture quality.

Anyway glad to see that you had a positive experience on the upgrade path

Definite improvements

Yes, I proved it to myself…it makes me curious. If I had time to purchase and return jillions of interconnect/wire demos, - different brands, - different good/better/best levels. Would I keep seeing a difference between ALL of them??? I’m sure over the years I’ll end up trying a few whenever opportunity arises. Nice to know someone else had good luck with the brand I’m running currently!

I just found something I'm not happy about with my 950. (This is the right thread, isn't it?)

My wife has been sick the last couple of days so I've been working at home to take care of the kids. I'm not sure I accompliahed either task. My kids both nap in the afternoon (My kindergartener hasn't figured out that he really doesn't need to nap anymore, at least until he gets to college.). My wife has also been sacking out. So I sit and work while they sleep and I put some music on.

I'll go back to the office tomorrow because my wife seems like she'll be better. So my problem is that the 950 will be home and I'll be at my office with the phone, the whine of the computer, the screaming of the air handling system, and the creak of the bathroom door opening and closing.

The 950 (and the rest of my system) didn't need to educate me on how poor the sonic landscape at work actually is. So, to answer the original question of this thread, I'm unhappy.

Wow Dollar Bill, that is a serious problem you got there. I hope this isn't a widespread problem because that would suck if Outlaw had to stop production again. I hate to admit it, but I just checked mine and I have the same problem. Hopefully this is covered under the warranty.

Well I took delivery of my 950/770 combo just yesterday (my first foray into the world of separates), fully hooked up, tweaked and calibrated (well, we much as you can do in just one day).

Right away I could hear hiss (running Klipsch RF3s (mains), RC3II (Front Center), RS3s (L/R Surrounds), RC3, (Rear Center)) and an audible 'hum'.

I hooked the 950 to the 770 with plain old audio connects, the kind you get free with new gear (low end gear only it seems), anyway, I could hear the hum from the 'left side' only, I then swapped out those cables for other 'generic' cables, problem solved, hum was gone, hiss reduced.

Speakers set to small about 8ft from the sweet spot, I can hear hiss, it's not HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS like you would get if you cranked up the 950 with no signal but audible nonetheless. Moreover, I can hear hiss emanating predominantly from my side surrounds (I’ve read this elsewhere as well).

Today I received some interconnects from Bettercables (thanks Brad!) so I will not be using the generic ones, so I would imagine that given the drastic change in swapping out the generic ones for more generic one I should have better results with the new interconnects. Then again, maybe not.

The soundstage is much fuller, smoother is the best way to describe it, the SVS has much more oompf now (even set to the exact settings (-5) I used on the 1050) and the (re) addition of my rear channel in titles like ATOC and LOTR:EE sounds great and it can definitely go LOUDER

I’m going to do a tad more tweaking this weekend and watch a few films that I know that have ‘quiet’ scenes prior to ‘loud’ scenes to see if it’s bothersome.


[This message has been edited by Xen (edited November 22, 2002).]

Haven't visited the Saloon for a while so I'm surprised that there is still a hiss issue.
I do like the Outlaw cables with one exception. The cover on the cables stick to each other like velcro. They won't move smoothly over and across one another. It makes it difficult to arrange(jam) them behind equipment in an entertainment center.
BTW- I haven't been able to come up with hiss or any noise out of my Rotel 1060. Maybe I'm lucky in the grounding area.

The cover on the cables stick to each other like velcro. They won't move smoothly over and across one another.

I’ve done rather more interconnect swaps than I would like to for various reasons in the last months. The thought has never popped into my head that these cables don’t slide well enough over each other. I have been very pleased with the quality and sound of the Outlaw cables. In fact; its time after Christmas bedlam for me to order some more.
I purchased a basic set between the amp and pre and some optical. I wanted to wait till I had ‘tried’ the Outlaws cables in person and till we got our AV cabinet stand worked out (at the time dimensions and distances unknown) to know what run lengths I would require if I desired to replace my whole hodgepodge collection. The bloodycabinet is now in…as of Thanksgiving so its time to consider all my cables between the DVD etc. as soon as I have time for a shopping list.

Very glad you are happy with your rotel.
The topic question: Happy with the 950? A resounding Yes, here.

Hmmm,... 1060 .... must be the one without the bullets

Hopefully no one's trying to draw the conclusion that on different system's, that the 1066 is quieter than the 950. I still have yet to hear of a direct comparison in the same exact system.

The 950 only exhibits its hiss with specific combinations of either speakers or amps.

Also remember that the very 1st rev of the 1066 also had a hiss problem. (Internal ground problem or something.) And, the 1066 has the double bass problem on the 5.1 analog inputs that you cannot get around (unless you use an ICBM with it).

BTW, rumors of a new RSP-1098 available sometime early next year...

You should be able to look through the archives and see several direct comparisons in the same system. I think I even posted noise level measurements in my review between the two.


brianca..

Lena - Maybe you are just better organized back there than I am. When they are in close quarters they don't move over/across each other easily. I really noticed a better sound with them. I've even thought about coating them with Baby powder so they aren't so sticky.

Anybody got any thoughts on powdering the cables??

I don't imagine that it would hurt as long as you take care that the powder doen't get into the connectors or the electronics chassis. It's kind of strange that they are so sticky, however I don't those cables. I build my own using RG-59 coax throughout my system for audio.

brianca- If I am not mistaken, all of those comparisons were with the very 1st rev of the 950. Not the currently shipping rev.

Probably more trouble than it's worth. Since no one else seems to recognize the problem maybe mine were not finished properly. I have 12 cables received from 2 different orders.

In my particular system, there was hardly any improvement, in terms of hiss, going from the very first rev of the 950 to my red dot version of the 950. Also, Soundhound measured a high noise level, when he measured S/N on my red dot 950.

Steve:

Are you talking about the plastic film kinda stuff that covers the connectors on the Outlaw cables? We had the same question here in the doghouse, but my master called Scott and Scott told him that the film is a protective thing that the manufacturer puts on to prevent nicks to the connectors in shipping. You're supposed to take it off, if that doesn't sound too obvious.

But what do I know, I'm only a dog...

ARF ARF, says Iggy


[This message has been edited by Iggy The Dog (edited December 05, 2002).]

Yea- I figured that wrap was supposed to come off but it took me awhile to figure out the easy way to unwrap it. It also took me awhile to figure out that when it says turn clockwize it means facing the front of the equipment not the back.
I'm talking about the outer plastic coating of the cable.

Now that you mention it, the outer coating of the PCA's is pretty "sticky." They're a little bit trickier to tuck into place than some cables I've used, but just prior to getting my first set of PCA's I'd been using some TMC and Magnan cables -- the Magnan's were pretty beefy abd the TMC's are extremely stiff, so the PCA's seemed easy to manage in comparison. Even with six 1.8-meter cables making the extremely short connection between DVD player and 950 (gotta pick up a short stack, probably after the holidays), I haven't had a lot of trouble. Of course, if my entertainment center still had a back to it, the 1.8's wouldn't fit...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Now that you mention it, the outer coating of the PCA's is pretty "sticky."

Gonk, Now your going to have me back there 'feeling' my cables. Maybe nothing appeared 'diffrent' to me as this last year has been my first hands on cable swapping experience. (and I was very occupied with "what goes where").
But the only diffrence I remember 'thinking' while dealing with the assorted brands of audio cables I have running around back there. (Unknown, Monster, Radio Shack, Outlaw) was how much more 'quality' there appeared to be in the Outlaws general feel/build and terminations. Stiff (as in substancial) not 'too' stiff. Etc.

-- next thing you know, manufacturers will have to start providing static and dynamic coefficients of friction for cables and equipment feet. Scary, eh?

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I saw your pics Gonk and if you had a back on the rack(like I do) it would be more of a problem. Also my cables are a little long but they had to be to connect them. The last interconnects I bought from Upscale Audio, I quized him as to their flexibility and he knew what I was talking about. Those cables are Sonic Blue silver covered copper and are very flexible and smooth(cover).If I had an open back e-center I may never have noticed this except when stretching them out.
Lena - you can feel my cables anytime you want(couldn't resist)

Where's a guard dog when you need him. “Hey….Iggy…..Sic him”.

For my money, the Outlaw cables are the best value going. I have eleven components all cabled with Outlaw. I can see how it would be problematic if my rack had an enclosed back. I like that the cables are stiff. It helps them keep their shape and not sag. Maybe I'll get around to submitting a picture one of these days.
Happy Holidays!
Mix

STEVE:

Understandable, but, to defend the honor of our own Mizz Lena: GRRRRRR !

But what do I know, I'm only a dog!

ARF ARF (among other things) says Iggy!

Thank you for the kind words! Hopefully I'll be around a bit more from now on. The family issues have settled down a bit and work ... well, it's still work. At least I'm employed.




Oh yeah!

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pat----

email: pat@sklenar.info ---===--- home page: Grumpy's Lair

In the beginning of this thread I told you I was very happy with my 950. In another thread I wrote that I have the hiss and was able to minimize it by turning down the gains on my Parasound amp. This is a fantastic piece of equipment at a bargain price.
I had spoken to and e-mailed the Outlaws with my hiss problem and the way I minimized it, the speakers I use, the amp involved, and how the hiss was affected by both removing the 950 and by inserting an NAD PE7175 receiver where the 950 was. Today I was sent a confirmation that a replacement is being sent in the next few days.
I can now say that Outlaw customer service is top notch, and I commend them for their honest, straight forward approach to service after the sale.
By the way, my current 950 still sounds superb, but with the amp adjustments I made, I was worried about the effects less efficient speakers or a bigger room would have on the hiss if I needed to turn the amp gains back up.

I'll put this here. I've also had the hiss problem.

I got an email Mon the 23rd saying that a new one was going out to me that night. Now, I also got the "exchange" email saying it's not going to ship until the 1st two weeks in Jan.

Which is it?????


>> OK, looks like it is almost here.


[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited December 27, 2002).]

The "exchange" e-mail went to everyone, even people like myself who had not reported hiss problems. I'd trust the e-mail telling you that it shipped earlier.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I got the exchange Email today also.

Me three.

Hello everyone, I'm new to this group and have owned my 950/755 combo for about a month now and couldn't be happier. I have PSB Stratus Gold i speakers and my unit is dead quiet. BTW, the Gold's are a hard speaker to push, but the 755 handles them nicely. I do have a couple of questions if you guys have time. What kind (brand if known) of D/A converters are used in the 950? I have a Rega Planet 2000 CD player and I hooked up the two analog outputs and the digital (coax) outputs to the 950 so I could compare the two (have to scroll through various digital inputs each time you change). I think I read somewhere that the 950 upconverts to 24/192, is this correct? Also, has anyone compained enough to get Outlaw to come out with replacement front plates as an option? Pretty drab looking black and the painted on emblem is really tacky. BTW, the 755 looks like it could have come from the same factory that makes ATI, anyone else notice?

Hi Jack. I looked on the specs page for the 950, and found this:



The Outlaw's 755 and 770 amps do come from the same factory as the ATI amps, actually, although I don't remember all of the specifics about Outlaw's and ATI's arrangements with the factory. As for the faceplate, there's been several debates over the last year or two about the appearance of the Outlaw equipment -- those debates were behind the recent modifications to the company logo, but the rest of the appearance is not likely to change significantly because it was a conscious decision on Outlaw's part to go for a "Spartan" design on their gear. There may be some future adjustments to the company's style, but I wouldn't expect to see shiny chrome or anything real flashy.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

err ... what "exhange email" is this? Not that I want to exchange my 950, I've not had *any* problems - hiss related or otherwise, but if this email is going to everyone, my feelings are hurt.


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pat----

email: pat@sklenar.info ---===--- home page: Grumpy's Lair