[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited December 05, 2002).]

Soundhound,

Ok, since we 'e-shook' I had to take a gander (who the heck says 'gander'??) at your HT. Looks good. Love that 10' screen. Your room looks like it belongs more here in AZ not CA too. I was suprised my that.

So which Sony LCD projector is that?

Those pics are still very big for typical web pics I think. If you ever need the space I'm sure you could easily make them all a quarter of that size and they'd still look real good. Just a webspace saver idea if you need the space later and still want your pics up.

On my screen I had to scroll up/down/side-to-side just to see each whole pic since none fit within my screen due to the big size.

True to my word.. I'll post a link to mine (though you already saw it -since I did say where it is).
Pretty much just audio, video and seats...

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=7711&cat=500&thumb=1

-now to go burst my stomach with fowl.

azryan:

I am a fan of southwestern decor, and am particularly fond of New Mexico. The look is very soft and calming. Wherebouts in AZ do you live? My dad lives in Kingman. I rode my motorcycle to Phoenix last year to get some mods done on it.

The projector is the VPL 400W (i think that's right) It was their first LCD that had a native 16:9 panel. I am going to upgrade to something else, maybe DLP, or maybe something else. I am waiting for the LCD/DLP/LCOS technology thing to sort out to the point that I can get as good a black level as a CRT can achieve, or at least close. I may have to wait for that though. The whole 'color wheel' thing in DLPs to me sounds like a "wank", so I'd like to see if 3 panel ever trickles down in price. I'd also never settle on anything less than around 1024 vertical pixels. Any ideas on this as to where the tech is heading? As you might have guessed, my room is basically a commercial studio that the film makers come to so I can present my work. The picture has to look good (and sound good).

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited November 28, 2002).]

SH,

IIRC, the DILA from JVC came pretty close to matching black levels of CRTs.

Have you seen any FP DILA projectors?

I'm telling them you said that!

Alright …..what’s it going to cost me? A couple of nice shiny Outlaw PCA’s?


I hope everyone had a Great... Thanksgiving and did not eat too much! Today I think I take my Mom to the new Potter movie….

SH,
projectorcentral.com always seems to keep up to date on all the latest FP's with company press releases, detailed reviews and direct comparisons. A 'must-see' site IMO.

Personally, I got hit with rainbows on a 6' screen and Plus Piano so I'm not a fan of color wheels either, and for now decided to go w/ RP.
Mainly I'm waiting for a new bulb technology like radio freq.charged quartz/argon for FP, but I can't fit more than a 7' screen in my room without pulling by speakers too far apart -something I just won't do, and I don't want an acoustic screen.
I heard they degrade the picture and they're not exactly acoustically transparent, but haven't used one so I'm just going by what I heard.

You can check out the last page of the projector thread here on the New Products section (where I've pretty much just been arguing w/ Charlie as of late about 3 chip color convergence).

I've made lots of comments on the current technologies too. The new HD DLP chip's great in FP, but the latest in 3 chip LCD is much brighter which would probably be better for your huge screen. 3 chip LCoS is my pick for best of both worlds, but there's not much out there beyond JVC's costly projectors...yet.

Maybe you could mention how your 3 chip LCD has no color convergence problems.

azryan:

Thanks for the info and link. I'll be sure to check it out.

I'm going to be waiting for probably a good year for the whole projector thing to settle down. I've heard of the new bulbs too, and supposedly they don't generate nearly as much heat, eliminating the projector fan.

Convergence? I hadn't given it any thought until you brought it up. I had just assumed that the three panels were locked togeather at the factory after they did any convergence adjustments. Not the case?

My Sony does a really good job for now, but I really want to take advantage of progressive scan, and HDTV.It has a very good line doubler, but if there's fast movement in the scene, it breaks down into an interlaced looking image.Otherwise, it's bright, and the pixels aren't that easy to see, but of course they're almost invisible on DLP.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited November 30, 2002).]

"I'm going to be waiting for probably a good year for the whole projector thing to settle down."

I think both LCD and DLP will probably only progress incrementally from now on both having been around for a long time now in front projection. Now that DLP has HD chips that produce decent black level, I think one year you'll just get what's out now for cheaper. Which is always good though IMO. Not sure on the specs of their HD3 chip or when it's going into projectors?

Hopefully LCoS will make some strides soon, but other than from JVC, it's very odd that it's such a slow start. That's my fav. tech. 'bet' for the future in both cost and performance.

"I've heard of the new bulbs too, and supposedly they don't generate nearly as much heat, eliminating the projector fan."
Yeah... no heat actually. And they output a perfect 6500K, aren't under high pressure, have no wires to burnout so they should last a looooong time, and are easily user replaceable.

I think the RF emissions are the main prob, but that SHOULD be fixable?

"Convergence? I hadn't given it any thought until you brought it up. I had just assumed that the three panels were locked togeather at the factory after they did any convergence adjustments. Not the case?"

Yeah, and you've had perfect convergence since you bought it.

That's what I wanted you to say 'cuz Charlie's been arguing with me over and over about how it's still an 'issue' for him despite my saying that in the 'real world' (like you and your PJ -and everyone else lives in) no one's got convergence errors w/ 3 chip systems.
He doesn't seem to see how that point matters??

Hearing you had 3 chip system I wanted to see if your experience would back up what I've already found to be true -which you basically did by saying you hadn't thought of convergence till I brought it up. If a prob. existed for you I'd imagine you've already had it in your mind.

"My Sony does a really good job for now, but I really want to take advantage of progressive scan, and HDTV.It has a very good line doubler, but if there's fast movement in the scene, it breaks down into an interlaced looking image."

Both the new LCD and DLP should fix this to a large degree if not totally for you. I still see some of this effect in DLP but more so in the rear projection sets (don't ask me why, but it might be 'cuz it's mostly a processing issue than a display trait?).
Haven't seen some of the newest LCD pj's, but just going by 'word on the street'(forums) that they're really good.

"Otherwise, it's bright, and the pixels aren't that easy to see, but of course they're almost invisible on DLP."

Both DLP and higher rez LCD should (as I'm sure you already know) greatly improve that. I think LCD is generally brighter (too bright IMO in some cases), but your screen's huge so I'd probably go LCD. You can usually very slightly de-focus the lens to blend the pixels in just a hair. Have you tried that on yours?

I actually did that on the DLP PlusPiano (800X480 I think @ 16:9)I had. And I was @ 2X+ the screen width. Almost invisible became truly invisible.

Are you getting a lot of trueHD yet?
I know I'm getting very little from OTA and zilch from DishNet, and am still waiting for the DVDgroup to decide on red laser MPEG-4 or blue laser 'blueray' HD-DVD's, plus the fight over digital vid inputs.
(not that I haven't been doing the same thing w/ SACD/DVD-A for how long now!)

azryan:

Thanks a bunch for all the info!

I think if there was a projector that had
1) 1080 vertical pixels
2) That RF bulb !!!!
3) Good blacks
and 4) There wasn't a new hot motorcycle that was fighting for my money

That money in my pocket that's 'sub critical' now would quickly go 'critical" I'm going to keep my eye very closely on all the available technologies and see what looks best to me.

One question: I had fits with my Sony, having to get 3 replacement units because of dead pixels, until I finally got a perfect one. I don't understand it; I gave them 'perfect' money, and I would like a 'perfect' projector the first time. I noticed in the manual that they say that some number of dead pixels is 'within spec and normal'. I say BULL****!!!

Is the dead pixel issue still a problem in your experience?? I hope not.....


I have found that de-focusing my image doesn't do much good with my particular projector. You see, the lens exibits abberations in color when de-focused, I then do start to see 'mis-convergence' that I'm sure is coming from the lens. It goes away completely if the image is perfectly focused. Weird, huh?

We get quite a bit of over-the-air HDTV here, and I think DirecTV that I use offers it also. Personally, I don't watch "TV" i.e. over the air - nothing on worth watching for me. I would prefer to purchase movies on DVD rather than see them on satellite. If DVD-HD happens, that would be the best of all worlds, and of course another round of upgrades

"1) 1080 vertical pixels"

That'll do 1080P. That'll be great one day when we can upconvert all our 1080i TV/SAT/Cable signals to it. That's my idea of perfection, but 720P and 1080i are still pretty close to perfect. Oh yeah... 10 foot screen. Scratch that.

The word I heard is HD-DVD's will probably be 720P and not 1080P so that sucks if it ends up being true.

1080P and higher is already available from LCoS makers, but the chips ain't gettin' into actual systems yet. Must be a production problem?
Three-Five systems has a killer 1200x1920 chip that could do 1200x1600 4:3 comp. monitor rez. or 1080x1920 the exaulted highest level of consumer HD spec.

"2) That RF bulb !!!!"

Yeah, the company that looks like the big developer seems to have fallen off the map. They suposedly used these RF bulbs to light the U.S. Dept. of Energy building even? There's gotta be a story to dig up here.
G.E. is working on this too, but I find not info from this giant 'bulb' company??

"3) Good blacks"

I'd settle for as good as CRT (which seems to be about here already though still debatable I guess)..., but I'd prefer 'better than CRT'.
When I can't tell where the letterbox bars of my screen end and the actual black cabinet of my RPTV begins then I'll be happy. heh

Maybe if the chips get cheap enough in the future they could overlay a black/clear (on/off) LCD on top of a DLP that would be used just to further block out bulb light on the low end of the gray scale?
Like a double black filter. If that makes sense??

"and 4) There wasn't a new hot motorcycle that was fighting for my money"

Is it a V-Rod or a Buell? I come from Milwaukee and was raised on American Iron, but I 'hear' other companies make motorcycles?? heh. Just kidding if it's a foreign bike... Harley's have a TON of Japanese parts on 'em so it's silly to called 'American' anyway.

Is it a touring bike? Do I get to make 'old' jokes if it is?? heh

I sadly sold my H-D 883 (w/ full screamin' eagle racing kit) 'cuz I just didn't use it enough (read: wife's fault -just kiddin'). Probably never get another one so put on a few miles for me.

"One question: I had fits with my Sony, having to get 3 replacement units because of dead pixels, until I finally got a perfect one. I don't understand it; I gave them 'perfect' money, and I would like a 'perfect' projector the first time. I noticed in the manual that they say that some number of dead pixels is 'within spec and normal'. I say BULL****!!! Is the dead pixel issue still a problem in your experience?? I hope not....."

Uh... sorry, but I think it very much still is.
TI has this same policy on stuck pixels and with a single chip DLP a bad pixel is a bright white or solid black dot. I forgot the number before they call it 'bad' but something no one ever hits and one bad pixel is enough to ruin the image IMO.

Much easier to see w/ DLP than a bad dot on LCD since it'd be highly improbable that three bad LCD dots would hit the exact same spot, so I give the nod to LCD or LCoS in this 'risk area'.

At a local electronics shop I just saw the new RP Samsung (HD2 DLP chip) with a stuck 'on' pixel. I also saw a bad pixel on a Sony GrandWega (LCD RP). The LCD wasn't too bad at any 'normal seating' distance, but on the DLP the bad pixel very much was.

Probably half of all DLP RP and FP I've seen have had a bad pixel (usual 'off'/black). I thought it was less common w/ LCD, but I'm not sure now?
Any new pixel probs. since you got 'good panels' put in, or was that it?

I think if an LCD panel is good it's not likley to have a pixel's electrical connection go bad(though just a guess really?), but w/ DLP pixels the mirror's hinge gets 'stuck' and it can happen at any time during it's life (not a guess).

The big posters on AVSforum's projector section would know more. You could do a search there even as I know it's been talked about in the past.

Too bad CRT is just too HUGE and too HEAVY and too low light for FrontP for most people. It's still the best/most dependable picture IMO.

But there's nothing like comparing a 4 lbs. projector that's far brighter than a 250 lbs. one.

In RearP I think CRT still clearly wins over the microdisplay options in every respect (esp. cost) other than cabinet size... but @ a size like my 65" screen.. microdisplay sets still have close to the same size cabinet, and though somewhat lighter... weight isn't an issue IMO either since a CRT RP rolls very easily if you have to move it and you have to do the same for a Large microdisplay set (or if tabletop design -carry it and move it's stand).

I do expect microdisplays to dominate RP in a few years though. Maybe 3-4 years I'll bet. Once they get cheaper and higher quality than CRT.

I figured it'd have happened by now but it hasn't.