I have searched this site for comparisons of these 2 units, but have come up empty. Has anyone here compared these against each other? For power I am using a Parasound 2205AT with Klipsch speakers all around.

Gonk has a great comparison chart that includes the Ref 30. His link is in his signature but I will also include it here.
http://www.prillaman.net/950_chart.html

Sorry for the copyright infringment Gonk

[This message has been edited by desperado (edited November 27, 2002).]

Heh-heh. I think I can let it slide this time.

Also, while comparing the Ref30 to the 950, it is worth noting that one beta tester -- Merc -- actually had a Ref30 when he first received his beta 950. I don't recall the specifics of his experiences with the two, but I know he preferred the 950. Maybe later this morning I'll poke around the archives for some of his comments...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Thanks for the link, but I have seen the page before. I was interested in the sound similarities or differences in the 2 pre's. I found the Ref 30 for $1600, but that's $700 more than the 950. I was wondering if I am paying the 7 bills for the snob factor? I would gladly take the 30 back and get the 950 if the sound was of equal quality.

Now that Outlaw has aggressively fixed the 950 noise problems it is IMO a real contender.

The 30 has features the 950 lacks, but sonicly I suspect it would have a great deal less influence than other factors, such as whether your window curtains are drawn and speaker placement.

Of all devices in the signal chain speakers have orders of magnitude more variation in sound than anything else. Basically a low distortion (compared to the rest of the signal chain) speaker/room combo is almost impossible to attain.

They both look to be good units. The 950 is still kind of ugly, but that is a secondary concern I guess.

Just FYI, IMO and YMMV.

The real question, I think, is the 950 versus the ref. 50.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Gonk, did you reformat the table in your page recently? It used to line up fine for me but now it looks all screwy... as though a proportional font was used where a fixed font was required.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Haven't messed with it in a while. What browser are you using? It still displays fine for me in IE6, but I have noticed some quirks in Mozilla (actually Phoenix) just today. [Edit: as soon as I say that, the column spacing in Phoenix works fine... think I'll double-check the code anyway...]

Without having used/heard a Ref 30, I would say that based on some comments from other people (none of which I seem to be able to find this morning, alas), the 950 would be very competitive or outright superior. The features are very comparable in general, although the 950's newer formats (ES, EX, Cirrus Exta Surround, Pro Logic II) give it a slight edge. The Ref 50, however, may be a whole other story. Of course, I'm not sure what the availability or cost of the Ref 50 are. (It's on B&K's site now, but is it on shelves?)

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

[This message has been edited by gonk (edited November 27, 2002).]

The 'soundhound' version of the noise fixed units are not available and while I hope it won't be long, Outlaw doesn't yet have a date of when they will be available.

"The 950 is still kind of ugly ..."

Yes, but it ugly in an endearing way.

Some equipment is designed to be "impressive" in a way that attempts to intimidate the viewer/user along the line of "I am the Bombast model 1X mkII and you are lucky that I am here."

Paul

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the 1derful1

The faceplate of the 950 is actually aluminum, but they do a mighty good job of hiding that fact, making it look kind of like some kind of plastic. Maybe they should look for a good anodizing house to put a classy finish on it. How about titanium with silver buttons?

Good old fashioned brushed/black anodizing works for me. And spend the extra $0.50 to buy a volume knob that doesn't look like it got half melted in shipping. And use the new logo from the 200. The green button gives it character - keep it. My $0.02.

But Charlie, that is just so, so 20th century!!

OK fellas, let's not lose site of the original topic.
Gonk Did you ever find the thread? I searched under Ref30, reference 30, b & k, and a few other ways to look, but found nothing 'cept a reference to the cost of a used one.
Just a little background info. I had been using a Yamaha 2095 as the pre until I stumbled upon a Ref30 for $1600. Being a bargin shopper, and wanting the biggest bang for the buck, I grabbed it up. Sound is far superior to the Yami. The sound from the 30 is just what I was looking for. If the 950 could match that sound, it would save me a good $700. I have very revealing speakers. Mains are Klipsch LaScalas with Hersey's as surrounds.

Those are _classics_! If you could part with them, you could sell them to some Japanese collector for big $$$ and buy yourself whatever you want

Soundhound, Parting with them would be like selling my kids. Wait a minute. Do you think a Japanese collector might want the kids? Seriously once you go Klipsch, it's tough to listen to anything else. Especially if you like live music. I have owned other brands too (and still do), like Martin Logan, Vandersteen, NHT, Polk, Bostons, Mirage, but IMO the Klipsch are the best for that concert feel. The Ref30 has brought a lot of clarity to the soundstage. I am hoping I will hear other opinions about the 950 comparing the 2 that would report the same.

flason:

I don't know, the kids - the speakers - tough choice

If you like horns, you might check out my room:

http://home.earthlink.net/~soundhound/studio/studio.html

In my situation, I can do an A/B instant switch which either goes through the 950, or directly througn a very 'tweak" vacuum tube preamplifier. Doing this while playing CDs (or any other stereo source), I can't hear any difference in the direct vs the 950 feed. Sounds pretty good to me. I haven't heard the ref30 so I can't comment on that.

flason

I pretty much came up empty yesterday (I don't think merc made many of his beta test comments here at the saloon, since at the time he was actively posting at HTF). I did find some scraps this morning, though. Nothing extremely detailed or definitive, but it's something.

AVR307 thread at HTF
post #16 in HTF Official 950 Thread
post #142 in HTF beta tester thread
post #235 in HTF beta tester thread
post #254 in HTF beta tester thread

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Gonk, Thanks for the links. Great reading and it gave me a lot to consider. The 950 will probable get ordered this week. I keep posting and hope to do a comparison. Still have 50 days to keep the 30.