I'm wondering how others who have a slight harshness with their 950, have addressed this problem.

One approach might be to reduce the treble. I'm curious if that's a good idea, or if it's overkill or underkill. The treble controls are in 2 db increments. I'm not sure at what frequency the treble kicks in and at what slope and I'm also concerned about the treble control possibly introducing artifacts.

Has anyone done any listening tests on the treble? Has anybody measured what the treble control does.

Hey Will:

I don't know of anything in the 950 that can get rid of the harshness. I sensed it more of a 'hardness' or 'glassiness'. Playing with the treble, if it works for you, then there's no reason not to do that, as I don't think that any artifacts would be introduced. If your speakers have a mid-range level control, you might try loweing that a bit; it's worked for me. In my current setup, the reason I use all vacuum tube gear is to overcome the hardness that sometimes creeps into digital audio. Plus toobs just look cool glowing in a darkened room - kinda like candles, but without the fire hazard...

the 950, in my opinion, is not harsh...only very accurate. i have been saying the following since 1982: 16/44.1 is a terrible format. this is why audiophiles choose vinyl or tape. you can't hide the harshness, only mask it.
switch to multichannel sacd or dvd-a.

the 950 sounds terrible when playing a stereo cd. it's because the 950 reproduces the piece of crap accurately. i've listened to a 2" master tape after paying a small fortune to work with a good producer grinning from ear to ear, only to have to settle for the stripped down, garbage version that a cd is.

when i asked a producer who's ears and talent i very much respected, what is up with cds?, he shook his head and replied, "i cannot believe what the american public accepts as quality, but as long as they do, this is what you get".

some master tapes have much less information to have to chop to fit a cd, and therefore, sound better than others. again, this is why most audiophiles gravitate to acoustic music (symphony, jazz quartet, live recordings of both, with or without a great vocalist through a great mic, etc.). it sounds as good as cd can be.

listen to any cd (not the sacd hybrid cd, but one you've had for some time) that you consider to be your reference cd, then listen to the same cd in multichannel sacd.

if you buy the best cd player, the best stereo tube pre, the best speakers on earth...a cd is still a cd. listen to the master tape (or 24/96 digital master) and you will see what i mean.

sacd/dvd-a, on the other hand, come as close to the master aa a copy possibly can. and this is where the 950 SHINES! i know....the software is slow in coming, the standards are being tweaked and good surround music producers are very few. but it's starting to focus and some are downright masterpieces.

i've mentioned jt's "hourglass" and spyro gyra's "in modern times". zero harshness. immense soundstage. tiny details you would never hear on a cd. these are not my 2 favorite artists by any list, yet i listen to these 2 sacds every day just to marvel at how GOOD they sound. yes' "fragile" is coming out on dvd-a this month. i'll buy a dvd-a player just to buy this disc!

if you listen to cds, you are stuck with masking the harshness and abiding the lack of detail, but......WHY? ok, one more time...this 950 sounds GOOD. feed in good and hear good come through it. pitch the cds where they belong.

sorry, soundhound...you can have your soap box back now.

Thank goodness we of the budget world don't have to put up with that inaccurate Meridian and Theta crap that makes just about anything sound so darned good.

[This message has been edited by HT crazed (edited October 06, 2002).]

Well thanks, Bosso, as I climb back on the 'ol soapbox....

I have found that there is an _incredible_ lack of knoledge about the very basics of how to get the signal to CD accurately. It really amazes me the things I hear coming out of the mouths of some of the people who master some of the CDs that we all listen to. Basic things like how to avoid digital clipping for instance...amazing!!! My own take is that the CD standard is acceptable _IF_ there is no more than one generation removed from the master tape, and the listening level is not elevated too much that the digital noise floor is audible. Unfortunately, this is the exception rather than the rule.

One interesting story you might be interested in regarding Dolby digital. When I am on the dubbing stage after all the final mixing is done on a feature film, and am doing my final paperwork, they are usually making the Dolby Digital master of the final film soundtrack. As I am working, I have more than a few times snaped my head up suddenly and said "what is _that_ shit!" The mixing engineers always respond: "Oh, we're playing back the Dolby Digital master to check it" I say "oh" and go on with my work........

I have a suggestion for those who are dissatisfied with their "digital" sounding CD player.

Take a look at a used Rega Planet (the original). This player is available used for about $400 - 500. I had similar complaints about my CD sound (especially through Klipsch), and this player is the solution. It is a very smooth, analog sounding machine. I had no idea just how different a CD player could sound until I got the Rega. I use the analog outs with silver IC's for best results on my system.

I realize that the new multi channel formats are the way many are going, but the Rega will shed a whole new light on that old 16/44.1 CD collection.

It is the pill to cure that "digital edge".

Thanks for the advice, but I would probably prefer not to convert the digital stereo CD (*) to analog in the CD player since this involves a D/A in the CD player, and a subsequent A/D in the 950 whenever the 950 does any digital signal processing (DSP) of the signal, e.g. if the 950 does DPL-II or NEO or even 5/6/7 stereo. A related problem is, as many have noted (e.g., Soundhound, Kevin C Brown, and myself), analog in's that are DSP'd in the 950 can get noisier (e.g., more hiss) than digital in's that are DSP'd in the 950.

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(*) stereo CD, as opposed to DVD-A or SACD CD

[This message has been edited by Will (edited October 06, 2002).]

"if you listen to cds, you are stuck with masking the harshness and abiding the lack of detail, but......WHY? ok, one more time...this 950 sounds GOOD. feed in good and hear good come through it. pitch the cds where they belong."

bossobass - you and I must have the same ears/definitly same idea of what the 950 is doing. Garbage in = garbage out.

Now I need your opinion on what SACD or DVD A player to get. The combo ones have not gotton great press (Pioneer), maybe the inexpensive Sony is the way to go. Thoughts here?

data reduction...the symptoms...become apparent...in the form of vague stereo imaging, noise modulation, a harshness to the sound, aliasing and increased background (quantising) noise. [sound on sound, ltd. 1998]
these effects become drastically more apparent after 2 or 3 generations of processing and clipping from the necessary brick wall limiting is also a problem, so soundhound, as usual, you are correct. as to whether or not it's acceptable, we disagree.
and...neither meridian nor theta, nor anyone can reverse these flaws in format.

davis s: i have had the sony dvp ns900v for about a year now and am very happy with it's performance. i'm not familiar with the latest and greatest sony players. i only know that the model i have is selling for around $500 these days. i have just started researching dvd-a players and also would like to hear input from others. i read awhile back about some fella who builds a switcher to connect both players and sells them online...anyone remember? i'll post what i find, for sure.

My front speakers can be adjusted, but my other speakers cannot. The trouble is if I adjust the fronts to sound good, by lowering some of the frequency range, then the other speakers are unadjusted, and stick out sonically like a sore thumb, in multi-channel like DPL II or DTS or Stereo 5/6/7. So I'm concluding that unless I stick to straight stereo, it's probably best to leave the front speakers un-adjusted.

Or else, adjust the front speakers when going from stereo to multi-channel formats.

It would be like my subwoofer's phase needs to be adjusted now, when going from stereo to multi-channel formats, to get the correct subwoofer phase on the 950.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited October 06, 2002).]