My understanding was that the 5/7-STEREO mode would just copy the Left channel to the Left Surround(s), same with the Right channel. Not much manipulation required, just copying, and that would be adequate to test the behaviour of the Sub low-pass with different high-passes on Main and Surrounds. Don't know if that's how the 5/7-STEREO modes work, but it might be worth a shot... Definately, with other modes that extract info, you wouldn't know exactly what you would get.




I was referring to YOUR DD encoding purchase. With that you'll know exactly what signals are going where. Until you get around to that, could we maybe talk you into trying the 5/7-STEREO thing to check on the Sub low-pass?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by soundhound:

I would tend to believe what that guy in the article you pointed me to says, that the low pass to the LFE takes place at the _lowest_ of all the low pass settings, which could result in a 'hole' in the bass region of the smaller speakers.
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that there could be a huge (2 1/2 octave) hole seems like far too big a flaw to even warrant the design of triple crossovers.

the most likely case is that the low pass point is determined by the highest high pass point selected (since no one really selects 150 for any of their speakers, it hasn't been noticed).

maybe if you set one of the high pass points at 150 (though soundhound, as you say above, you do this already, i recall that you low pass your subs outboard, so the difference wouldn't be apparent), then set it to 40, you wouldn't need a metering device to hear that big a difference?

i don't use the sw out, or i'd try it myself.

of course, i agree that the manual says nothing about the low pass point in relation to the high pass points (neither does the ICBM manual)....and that this is pathetic. unless of course, explaining it in the manual would expose it's flaws.

I could indeed check that, but I'm not quite certain what you want me to check for. Please 'splain.

You could be entirely right on the 5 and 7 channel stereo modes just 'rubber stamping' the left front to the left surrounds and the same for the right. The point is, I wouldn't take the chance on that for calibrating my system, unless I knew for sure. I'm not entirely clear on why you need to include the surrounds in any testing of the sub crossover - if you could explain to me what you are trying to do, I can give you more info.You will still get a 'comb filter' effect with several speakers running, even if they are reproducing the same sound, which can mess with your measurements.

Note: I am one of those crazies that does not use the bass management feature: I have full range speakers all around, but I have an analog 60Hz crossover network inline with my front left and right feeds. I set the 950 to 'no subwoofer', which feeds the LFE to the front left and right mains. It is split to the subwoofers (4, in stereo) by the external crossover. I do set the center crossover for 150Hz, but I do this because it kind of 'spreads' the dialog across the front, taking the point source onus off the one center speaker.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say in a longwinded way, is that I might not be able to do the measurement you are asking for since my system does not use the LFE in the traditional way. Let me know.....

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited November 08, 2002).]

Bosso:

Yes, I do indeed set my center speaker's crossover to 150 Hz to spread the dialog somewhat across the front of the soundstage. The center speaker doesn't need this though, as it has two 12" woofers.

I got the idea for doing this from when I was working on the restoration of the original "Superman" movie. When they originally mixed the movie in England in 1978, they low-passed the dialog from the center to the left and right front speakers, giving a kind of 'wide stage' feel to the dialog that I liked. They don't do this anymore, in fact dialog is very rarely panned from the center speaker. They used to pan the dialog to match the position of the actor on the screen, but it was a bitch to work with, and ended up sounding un-natural in some circumstances. So now the dialog is just sent to the center speaker.

I have noticed when source is satellite/stereo sometimes DPL11 has a near match simulation to DD 3/2.1.
However certain feeds (or recordings) seem to give surround modes very little to work with and whole vast lengths of a movie can still be weighed heavily (or entirely) into the center speaker. Very unappealing. The next time I run into this sit. I’ll try center crossover higher to see if this spreads the stage to a more enveloping effect. Thanks for the tip.
When all sound tends to bear to center off satellite, particularly reducing impact during an action/adventure flick that’s the only time I use 5-S (now) 6-S to at least emulate, ‘enveloping’. I’ll try the crossover bump next time and see what occurs.

Remember that this will only work correctly if you have your mains set to large and no sub selected. Otherwise the info below the crossover will go to the sub instead of the mains as it does in shounds setup. I don't think the effect would be a good without this configuration.


brianca..

Brianca is correct. You will just shunt the frequencies below 150 HZ to your sub.

If your speakers are fairly big (don't have to be _huge_) You might just try to set all your speakers except for the center to "large" and set the subwoofer to "off", and the crossover for the center speaker to 150Hz. On satellite and on older movies (especially mono ones) there is likely to be limited bass anyway, so your speakers should be able to handle what bass there is (again, if they are bigger than a breadbox). Just go easy on the volume, and don't play "Pearl Harbor" or "Twister" like this or you will surely frag your speakers! And of course, you would need your subwoofer for films such as these.

I get a useful, if not huge benefit by setting my center in this manner. It would work better if the crossover point were adjustable up to about 250Hz or so, but give it a try.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited November 08, 2002).]

I've heard as a General Rule that speakers with 6.5" drivers or larger can be set to large. 5.25" and smaller should be set to small. This can vary though (hence the term General Rule).

[This message has been edited by JT Clark (edited November 08, 2002).]

That sounds reasonable.

Then, there's always my drive-in speakers

Davis S, its not a matter of disbelief, I just haven't seen the company post that you refer to.

Soundhound, in order to solder the resistors into the audio cables, I'll have to remove the shielding. That's why I thought it might be better to do it at my router box.

When I'm changing selections at the routing box, I always do so with the amps off.