My 5 year old Sony ES receiver died last night during one of the battle scenes in "We Were Soldiers." Though it may be fixable, my new speakers need more power than the Sony can put out safely at 4 ohms. I'm thinking of a 950 and either the 5 channel or 7 channel Outlaw amp.

I figure it will cost me about $1200 more to go to 7 channel from my current 5 channel set up (new speakers and cost differential on amp). My current surround speakers are only about 3 feet from the rear wall and operate in bipole mode. My theater room is fairly small.

Is there much 7 channel software out there? Does the 950 synthesize 2 extra channels if the DVD is not encoded with them? Do you think the added sound enhancement in my set up would be worth the cost?

Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

MIKE RAUB

1) There is a fair bit of 7-channel material (actually 6 channel, if we get technical - the sixth and seventh channels are mono, getting the same signal). Most of it is Dolby Digital EX soundtracks -- Star Wars Episodes I and II, Monsters Inc., Lord of the Rings, and a good number of others -- but there are also a handful of DTS ES soundtracks around as well.

2) If the soundtrack is simply 5.1 (or simply stereo and processed via Pro Logic II), the 950 will produce a surround back signal using Cirrus Extra Surround. It does a good job of it, I think. Basically, any time that you want to be in a surround mode, you have the option of also running the surround backs.

3) I really kind of like 7.1 (or 6.1 in my case, as I have only a single dipole surround back channel). I'm sure others will chime in with their experiences. If you're not sure about taking the plunge, one thought would be to start 5.1 and later add a two-channel amp and pair of back speakers (if you don't mind finding a home for a second amp, of course).

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

As indicated above, moving to 7.1 later is always an option. Also, if you go later you can get a good 2 channel amp, put it on the mains for times when you only want stereo and hook the 5 channel to the rest.

I'm using 6.1 on a 1050 as preamp now and the extra back channel adds a lot IMO.

I guess that would be an option too - you could find a good 6 channel amp and just get one more speaker.....

Mike, There's no commercially available 7-channel software that I know of. As Gonk correctly pointed out, the closest we have is DTS ES Discrete 6.1 (which is 6 discrete channels plus a Low Frequency Effects track), and DTS ES & Dolby Digital EX (which are 5 discrete channels, plus one more surround channel matrixed in, plus LFE). As for how much software is available: last I checked, there were between 60-70 EX/ES encoded titles available on DVD. This may not sound like much but many of these titles happen to be some of the most popular and high profile movies on DVD. Chances are you probably have some in your DVD collection already. Yes, and you can do that in a variety of ways. On 5.1 material, that doesn't have a surround back channel specifically encoded in, you can still use EX/ES decoding to extract a surround back channel and send it to your rear speakers. This surround back information will be cancelled out of the regular surround channels so you don't get duplicate sounds behind you AND to your sides.

While EX/ES decoding can work fine on many non-encoded material, on some soundtracks (especially if they contain a lot of mono info in the surrounds) you'll notice that the surround field collapses to the back wall. In which case the 950 gives you the option of using Cirrus Extra Surround for back channel extraction. It works just like EX/ES decoding except that, after CES extracts a surround back channel, it doesn't cancel out that info from the surround channels. While you get some duplication of sounds in the rear and sides, the sound doesn't collapse to the back wall. Better for music than movies.

You also have the option of not using any additional processing when listening to 5.1 sources. In which case the sides and rears will be run in parallel, but all 7 speakers will be active. I think it's absolutely worth the cost, because a 7.1 speaker set-up has some real advantages. Even without using any additional processing, two surround channels sound better to me coming from four surround speakers; much better sense of left quadrant vs right quadrant in the rear hemisphere.

With proper decoding on properly encoded material, the results can be spectacular! EX/ES soundtracks have the capability of very distinct and well separated surround placement on your right side or left side or behind you (or any combination thereof). This effect is difficult, if not impossible, to do with only two surround speakers. And as far as rooms go, size doesn't matter (he says); e.g., even in a room as small as your's, can't you tell if sounds are coming from behind you or from either side of you?

Aside from movies, a 7.1 speaker set-up also sounds great with music (if you like listening to music in surround). You get a more ambient and enveloping experience and a more seamless 360 degree soundfield than with a 5.1 set-up.

BTW, one last thing: don't use a single surround back speaker if you can avoid it. Psychoacoustic studies have shown that sounds along the centre line can be confused; i.e., with a single back speaker, sounds from behind can sound like they're coming from in front of you. It's a well known phenomenon known as front-back-reversal. Using two speakers behind you, even if you don't separate them much, can help ameliorate this problem. This is also why pre-pro manufacturers that specialize in surround processing always recommend a 5.1 speaker or 7.1 speaker set-up, but never 6.1.

Good Luck,
Sanjay

Somehow I get the feeling, that ancient man, never confused the growl of a saber tooth tiger from *behind* him to *in front of* him.

Especially with the video cues coming from your display.

Come on Kevin, haven't you seen that in the movies? When the spooky noise is heard the person looks behind them and then when they turn around BAM! there is the spooky noise maker right in front of them. Of course that same person in other movies always checks the basement of a haunted house for the spooky noise maker rather than my choice of running like hell.


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m-mmeyer
GO TWINS
My DVD's

[This message has been edited by m-mmeyer (edited October 28, 2002).]

Kevin, Hey, I don't know where in our evolutionary biology this phenomenon comes from but it's there, repeatable and demonstrable. Companies like Lexicon, Meridian, DTS, THX, etc, all discourage the use of a single back speaker.

If someone absolutely wants to go with a 6.1 set-up, I'd recommend they do what Gonk has done: use a dipole behind the listening position. This way, there is an acoustic null pointing at the listener's head, as opposed to direct sound along the centre line coming from right behind.

Best,
Sanjay

Thanks for all the good advice. What I may do is get the the 7 channel amp now and the speakers later. It will take a bit of wire snaking to get the rear channels, but that may be a good mid-winter project for when its too misearable to go outside.

I had actually planned on replacing the front projector this year, hoping the receiver would hold out for a bit longer. It's demise has forced a change in plan, but at least Outlaw is now in a position to ship the 950 out of stock (I hope that's still true; I guess the west coast dock labor problems still has things slowed down a bit).

Mike,

5 years old Sony ES receiver. Don't they come with a 5 year warranty?

Beings it broke, it must be a day out of warranty.

If the receiver is still under warranty, get it fixed and then sell it if you are going to go to a 7 channel system. Use the money towards the new system.

If it is not under warranty, get an estimate on how much it will cost to fix. If the cost of repair is significantly less that what you can sell it for, get it fixed and them sell it. Use the money towards the new system.

If it is not financially worthwhile to get it fixed, sell it anyway to someone who, such as this humble post author, would like to take a stab at fixing it or who might want to use it for parts. Use the money towards the new system.

In summary, do something with it to get some money. Use the money towards the new system.

Paul

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the 1derful1

I noodled this some more, and it still makes no sense. Even with dual rears, except for THX Ultra2 and Logic 7 sound fields, all you're doing is replicating a mono signal into 2 speakers. OK. In that case, where does the "image" appear? 1/2 in between the 2 rears, or directly behind you. Maybe now I'm beginning to understand the benefits of THX Ultra 2 and L7...