I have to throw my 2 cents in. I had my pre red dot 950. I was a lucky one who had a pretty close to perfect (read: no hiss) 950 back in April.

Here was one of my biggest problems.... jm99, you hit it right on the head.


Exactly what As far as 5.1/6.1, I really had problems with the stability of the image, and a lack of "space" with the 950. The 950 really seemed to collapse/jump front to back. This is obviously dependent on software (pre/pro and DVD). The best example is the 5th element at the beginning scene with the president. The hall is created perfectly by the AVM and Denon as a large space. The 950 was unable to produce this effect. Also, in that scene when the speaker walks forward, his voice pans from back to front smoothly on the AVM/Dennon. On the 950 it just jumps.

When I did my comparison to the 1066, which I now own, was the 950's jumpiness from front to back pans especially! Side to side seemed OK to me...

One thing I'd compliment about the 950... Its full of umph.. (at least the one I had) It has great bass. Very pronounced and full.. Quite good.

My big gripe besides the jumpy pan was the ergonomics as well.... Thats the other reason why I sent it back.

Jeff

Interesting. I was starting to suspect the Cirrus chipset was maybe not up to par, but since the Rotel IIRC has the same chipset I guess that theory is no good.

Most of the other competition is based on the DigitalDNA stuff I think.

The 950 definitely has a cool, "analytical" presentation to it. And if Santa Clara Jim's previous setup was geared to a warmer component like the HK, I can see where he might be disappointed with the overall sound. IMO the warmth has to come from somewhere (speakers, Amp, source, etc).

I do agree that while the 950 sounds accurate to me, it isn't terribly revealing of details. And I also agree that even though my speakers have been calibrated, there isn't a great sense of coherence as found in higher end processors.

But don't forget that the Anthem is also considered a major bargain in its price range so you are taking a real step up.

All that said, though, I'm very pleased with how the 950 sounds for movies. The sense of dynamics, timbral realism, and just all round realistic sound of the unit is incredible for the price. But you do need good surrounding equipment for it to shine.

Yes, I wish I was happier with it for 2 channel, but for the price what does for Home Theater is simply amazing. And there are always ways to integrate a 2 channel amp for the best of both worlds.

But alas, Santa Clara Jim, you've heard something that sounds dramatically better to you in your system, and once that happens, there's no turning back my friend. Now don't go doing anything foolish like listening to the new TAG or THETA units. Remember the kids tuition, and the new furniture your wife's been hinting about..

I'm wondering about the 'next tier' of pre/pros, the Ref50 (?) Sunfire TG3, anthem AVM20.

Any comments or pointers to how these stack up? I'm most curious about TG3 vs AVM20.

He has not heard the Anthem in his sytem, only at the Anthem store. In the Anthem store he liked the Anthem better than his 950 (although he wasn't that familiar with the 950). In his home, he says the 26 year old HK solid state integrated amp has a better soundstage than his 950. I'd be curious how the Anthem would sound in his home. The apples-to-apples comparison is as I understand it, using just stereo and using just analog. Because, that's how 26 year old solid state integrated amplifiers work.

I'd also be curious how he'd like a 950 that's set up right, in someone's home. He hasn't had the chance to hear that yet.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited October 03, 2002).]

Will,

I compared the Anthem in digital mode with both CD and DVD. I am quite familiar with the 950. I have delved fairly deeply into configuration including crossover points, distance settings, digital settings, source selection, trim setting, tone settings, etc.

The differences I heard were head-to-head, same speakers, same sources. The Anthem sounded substantially better. Please reread the original post and the thread.

It's not about analog and old amplifiers. It's about head-to-head digital decoding and audio performance.

Regards,
Santa Clara Jim

Jim,

If you prefer the Anthem to the Outlaw, I have no disagreement. Please reread my posts.

Regards,

Will

Will,

I'm sorry if I got snippy. My apologies. I am just frustrated by what I heard last night. I want to believe that it was a fair test but, after all this discussion, I am starting to wonder if I misconfigured something. I wish you could have been there. The difference was quite clear. I posted my honest assessment.

If someone can show me what I did wrong, I would gladly reconsider my position.

After all this discussions about speaker phasing and old amplifiers, I am not sure what to think anymore. I can say the old HK does sound better than the 950 to my ears.

With reference to the possibility of having received a bad unit, how does one determine that? It is very subjective.

I reiterate my invitation to anyone in the SF Bay Area to stop by and tell me if I have done something wrong. I have my doubts, but a second pair of eyes is rarely a bad thing.

Again, please accept my apology. I am just very diappointed.

regards,
Santa Clara Jim

[This message has been edited by santaclarajim (edited October 03, 2002).]

Since none of us was there, how do you propose we show you what you did wrong?

Jim,

Apologies accepted. I know it's very frustrating. I very much wish someone in the SF Bay Area would stop by and help you out.

Until that happens, I'd try a few easy steps to try to improve the soundstage of your 950 in stereo, without a subwoofer: (1) try re-arranging and moving your main speakers around, farther or nearer from the wall, etc., (2) use the digital connection from the CD player to the 950 since your CD player is many years old, the D/A inside your 950 should be quite a bit better than the D/A in your CD player.


You may have a bad unit, but chances are slim that the 950 would turn on and work but be sonically so bad that your HK would sound better.

Will