"Indeed. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: it is very ironic that we're even talking about noise in a digital component! "Perfect sound forever"......"

Until we get digital amps and digital speakers, we're going to continue talking about noise.

Thanks Soundhound for coming over to visit and take S/N measurements on my 950.

I wrote down some of his measurements. With the volume set to 0, trim to 0, with the analog DSP mode set to straight stereo, Soundhound measured the left front channel on my 950 as:

Full bandwidth, referencing .775v: -67db
With a 20kHz bandwidth limited filter in-line with the voltmeter: -77 db

I am no expert on what he measured. I'll defer to Soundhound on any specifics of his measurements on my 950.

Despite the audible hiss, my 950 sounds fine from my normally listening position. The audible hiss in mine is not as loud as in Soundhound's system, probably because my speakers are not as efficient as his horn speakers are.

Compentently designed analog components would do nicely also....

tonygeno
I posted this earlier here. The Atlantic Technolgy version DOES change componenets....

Thank you for your interest in the P-2000. Here a few of differences
between the Outlaw 950 and the P-2000.

Premium hand selected and calibrated components in the key processing
paths. This includes the main pre-amp, DSP, and Video boards; All caps,
DACs and Output ICs.

Higher grade Op-Amps for improved Signal to Noise Ratio in Direct, Digital,
and in the Analog-DSP inputs.

Higher video bandwidth at (55 MHz).

Higher grade premium power supply for more current stability.

Lower output impedance for increased tolerance with a wider variety of
audiophile cables.

Higher S/N ratio, greater stereo separation and lower stereo distortion in
the FM Tuner section

Lastly, the Atlantic Technology P-2000 features more ergonomically designed
buttons, and is available in a brushed aluminum titanium or black finish at
no additional charge.

Regarding the bass management, our processor works in the same manner as
the Outlaws. The bass management you are referring to is totally different
to the DSP bass from the front panel or remote control that lets you select
different low pass points for all channels.

Dan Rosenberg
Atlantic Technology

Surroundophile:

So, if sonics is primary, the 950 does not seem to be the best choice. Maybe I should take a look at the AT and Sherbourn versions. I'm enjoying the Outlaw but would prefer to get the best. Is the AT available now?

Thanks

That makes sense as the cost differential of the spin-offs is more than would be warranted by mere cosmetics changes. Expect to see a lot of 950s on Ebay after the spin-offs hit the market. Upgrading to the "A" version of the ICs in the analog section alone should address a good deal of the hiss issue. For the life of me, I can't understand why Outlaw didn't just pop for the higher spec'd ICs and just charge $999.00 for the unit in the first place. I bet they would have sold just as many units, and avoided all the bad press because of the hiss issue. I know that I wouldn't have thought twice about purchasing the 950 if the advertised price been closer to $1000, as it still would have represented a great bargain. Purchchasers of this kind of equipment who patronize companies like Outlaw love a good bargain, but I don't think they are are as concerned with "doing it on the cheap". People wanting a cheap unit would be more inclined to purchase a 'home theatre in-a-box" at K-mart I would think.

In later production runs of the 950, it is quite possible that the 950 will get overall improvements and these improvements will also be in the clones made concurrently with the 950. I guess we'll have to wait and see and compare the clones to newer 950's, when the clones come out. If they share the same production facility, perhaps they're identical on the inside.

The different 950's I've cycled through my home system (one 950 delivered in May, one in June and one in September) have all sounded subtly different. I imagine that 950's made three months from today might also sound different from my September model.

And there are differences between recent 950's, perhaps due to production anomolies. Soundhound's and my 950, were both delivered recently, and you know what, they measure quite different S/N ratios.

Yes, I know that Atlantic Tech says they hand select premium parts for their premium priced clones. But it remains to be seen if premium hand selected so-and-so's and higher grade such-and-such's and increased tolerance blah-blah-blahs in the clones represents a real difference or is, in the end, pure marketing spin, with no actual difference. If it walks like the same duck and talks like the same duck, and has no more features whatsoever than the duck then, it could be the same duck inside.

ICs that are the higher spec versions (they are made by the same company, but are the "cream of the crop" of the production runs) most notably in analog ICs, do have a tighter, and lower noise spec, lower dc offset in op-amps, etc. Now if that would make a difference in the 950, time will tell. My own experience is that the lower noise equivalents make a noticable difference, but don't by a long shot make up for bad design decisions made earlier on.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited September 30, 2002).]

Maybe Eastech will stop the production of the insides of the 950, and insert premium hand selected parts higher grade parts, and increased tolerance parts, and then restart the production line for the insides of the 950 clones, which would be identical to the 950 except for the premium parts. But I wonder. When the 950 clones come out, maybe someone technical can open one and tell us what's different inside.

That would certainly be possible providing they don't rub out the part numbers on the ICs, which is common when a manufacturer is trying to protect the design of a product. Having two specimens side by side, and having the numbers on the ICs, it would be pretty simple to tell.