Hello Outlaws!

My next purchase will be a new pre/pro, until then I will use my Sony ES receiver for those duties. I don't plan to expand to a rear center channel even after a pre/pro upgrade unless necessary.

My knowledgs of the current state of surround processing technologies is very limited. I'm leaning toward the 950, but have several questions.

To start, here is a little info on my current system:

Speakers:
front - Infinity Kappa 8.1
center - Infinity Kappa center
rear - Infinity Kappa 5.1
(could possibly get hold of another 5.1 for a center rear if needed)

Amplifier:
ATI 2505 (250 x 5)
(has not arrived yet)

Pre/Pro:
Sony ES 5.1 receiver
(for now)

Media Sources:
DVD, CD, S-VHS, Dish Network w/PVR, Playstation 2

TV:
Mitsu 35" console
(upgrading to HD after the pre/pro purchase)

Here are some questions I have regarding the 950:

1) I am very interested in DPL II. It seems to be regarded as a great enhancement. Does it work when only 5.1 speakers are connected (no rear center channel)?

2) Can you set the 950 up to only use a 5.1 configuration? If so, does it convert the 6.1/7.1 formats reasonably well to the 5.1 format?

3) Can the 950 auto-detect the incoming format and set itself appropriately? If so, can you default it to use another format (like DPL II or Cirrus Extra) instead when it auto-detects?

4) Are there any important features missing from the 950 that I will regret later?

5) I've seen mention of a possible new Outlaw Pre/Pro in the works. I'm guessing it will fit the new alignment of the 950/7100 combo and be the new companion for the 755 and 770 amps. Has this new unit been confirmed by Outlaw? Is there any additional info available?

If there is a new model on the (not too distant) horizon I would consider waiting. I am aware of the hiss issue, but would consider trying the 950 out in my environment to see how it sounds.

Please post all info/comments/opinions you may have. :-)

Thanks,

Sayer

[This message has been edited by SayersWeb (edited November 08, 2002).]

"I am aware of the hiss issue, but would consider trying the 950 out in my environment to see how it sounds". -

SayerWeb - best comment I've heard in along time. Others round here will commment on your questions, as I'm convienced they have better info them me. To me, your quote above says enough the me, I say go for it!

Oooh, questions! Let's see here...



Yes, Dolby Pro-Logic II will work fine in a 5.1 system. In fact, that is its native mode. The Model 950 uses its Cirrus Extra Surround processing to extract the surround back channels when they are available and the user requests it.



Yes, you can. Many users currently are operating with 5.1 speaker arrangements. Any 6.1 formatted sources are going to include a 5.1 format -- Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES both have to be formatted to allow use with processors equipped solely for Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 (such as the receiver you are currently using). 5.1 is still the norm, with 6.1/7.1 formats in general building from that base.



The 950 will auto-detect in general, although I've heard of a few people experiencing odd behavior when returning to a stereo input after using a mode like DTS (folks with DTS audio CD's), but I don't recall the specifics. Basically, if you pop in a DVD and select the Dolby Digital track, the 950 will understand and switch to Dolby Digital (including whatever additional Cirrus Extra Surround processing you might have used last on that input with that main format). If you then switch to the DTS track, the 950 will switch too. If you switch to a two-channel track, the 950 will switch to whatever processing was last used for two channels (DPLII, DTS:NEO6, 5-Stereo, DPLII with Cirrus Extra Surround, or whatever...).



-- it all depends on you. There are some limitations to the 950, features that were limited or omitted to meet the price point. Speaker trim settings are global (can't be set differently for different inputs or different processing formats). Speaker delay settings are lumped into three categories: center, mains, surrounds (including surround back) -- users who are particularly sensitive to delay settings may need to be able to set delay separately for each speaker. You might want to skim through the manual if you haven't already to get a better feel for what it does and does not include.



Outlaw has always planned a second pre/pro. It will be a "big brother" to the 950 -- more features, higher performance, higher price. It is probably being worked on, but I wouldn't expect official word any time soon. And based on the design time the 950 needed, don't expect it to appear for a year or two. Most folks around here also suspect that a replacement for the 1050 will appear in the not-too-distant future, but that's also probably easily six to twelve months off still.


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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

1) I am very interested in DPL II. It seems to be regarded as a great enhancement. Does it work when only 5.1 speakers are connected (no rear center channel)?
We do some heavy satellite viewing on a 5.1 setup. I’ve had 2 speakers in boxes not hung for months (don’t ask) until last night, when a speaker change across my mains allowed me to get the 6th speaker on line for the first time. In 5.1 DPL II is a very very nice upgrade when feed is (very frequently on my Direct TV) PCM/stereo. Occasionally it does such a good job, I start paying attention to the sound rather than the movie. When I was viewing ‘Frequency” the other day, it was at its best. I have read that certain soundtracks do not really give DPL II anything to work with. It was I believe a Dolby Labs generated white paper, I cannot remember the particulars behind the ‘why’ this occurs just know that I have noticed it myself in my real time viewing. I source another surround mode when this situation arises.
To be honest last nights short listen to my new 6.1 configuration up from 5.1 was not a vast step forward for me in HT effects. But then I’m in a situation of working within very small room dimensions so the 360 degree increase is not as noticeable here. If anything I have to deal with over-lap rather than trying to fill in holes for the 360 effect.

2) Can you set the 950 up to only use a 5.1 configuration? If so, does it convert the 6.1/7.1 formats reasonably well to the 5.1 format?
Yes, you can configure the 950 to 5.1 6.1 or 7.1. You do this in setup, which will limit the surround mode choices available to you. Ex: You can only play a DTS-ES Discreet DVD when you system is configured to 6.1 or 7.1, playing the same DVD will default to DTS when played on a 5.1 system.

3) Can the 950 auto-detect the incoming format and set itself appropriately? If so, can you default it to use another format (like DPL II or Cirrus Extra) instead when it auto-detects?
Yes you have auto-detect or default choices.

4) Are there any important features missing from the 950 that I will regret later?
For myself, it has the most features/SPM’s at it price, and more importanly great sound. There really is nothing I’ve found in its league. Some audiophiles have bemoaned certain user interfaces. Global calibration is for all sources, Distance can be set for FL/FR Center Surrounds separately (some units offer a distance on FL/FR separately etc) I personally would not buy a unit solely on its interface options myself but the Outlaw has most bases covered.

Others can perhaps answer with more precise language than I am capable of. I'm very happy with my decision to try the 950 for myself.

Sayer, Just some clarification. There is no 7.1 encoded format on the consumer level. On the 6.1 channel formats, whether the 6th (surround-back) channel is discrete or has been matrixed in, there is no need to convert to to 5.1 because those soundtracks already arrive in a 5.1 channel format. In fact, on EX/ES soundtracks, the 6th channel has to be extracted via matrix decoding. Even on DTS ES discrete 6.1 soundtracks, the 5 main channels contain ALL the soundtrack info; the 6th discrete channel contains redundant info.

Bottom line: while not optimal, 6.1 material will sound absolutely fine on a 5.1 speaker set-up.

Best,
Sanjay

Thanks to everyone for the replies!

I am thrilled to know that the 950 does well with a 5.1 setup!! It's a pleasant surprise. I'm even more intrigued by DPL II after reading your comments.

I don't see the delay and trim limitations as deal breakers. I will review the manual more closely. Some of it is a bit greek to me at this point. The Bass management facility is a good example of something I can't seem to grasp quite yet.

The posts by soundhound concerning his conversation with Peter of Outlaw sound very promising!!

Sayer