Nothing value added here/merely another observation:

Has anyone read/followed the long Anthem thread at the HTF? Several "problems", bugs with some units/not others(hint hint hiss), major software update headaches, etc, yet Sonic F and this unit aint looked at negatively at all?? I dont knows bout you all but if I spent close to $3k and suffered all this stuff/I'd be a little pissed.

The 950's perils are well documented, yet its hard to comprehend how much negative pub Outlaws gotten. I guess some who said Outlaw should have never published a potential release date/and been so late were right (ala the Rotel which kind of just showed up). Sorry for such a meaningless post/just bored!

David,

I’ve been thinking about the Anthem situation also. First, it’s just not Anthem that has had problems. Virtually everyone who markets a pre/pro has had difficulties. What so many of us seem to be forgetting is that these are complicated devices: Flawed algorithms supplied by chip makers, bad Dolby EX flags are just a few of the indignities that these manufactures encounter They also face interface issues with various power amps, power conditioners, or speakers which bring on new challenges.

In particular, the Anthem has more features than you can shake a stick at. This complexity inevitably causes problems and it is no surprise that these failings have been pointed out by their customers who hang out on HTF.

As far as features go, the 950 is no slouch either and we all know that they have had their share of teething problems. As the saying goes, “Every true pioneer eventually gets an arrow in his back”. As time goes on the Outlaws are learning from the field what is right and what needs improvement or modification. And they have worked as hard as they can to try and please their customers

I really commend them for what they’ve done with the 950. It sounds awesome. A few weeks ago I compared my 950 with a buddy’s new Atlantic P2000 and guess what? To my ears it was sonically indistinguishable from the nearly “twice as much” Atlantic (OK, it didn’t look as good as the Atlantic, but that is not important to me especially in a darkened living room watching Lord Of The Rings.)

On top of this, Outlaw is the only company that given its owner’s a voice in a unique forum like this. Who else sets up a consumer hang out, where if the visitors choose (and a few have) they can knock the Outlaw’s own products. It’s unprecedented!!!

Outlaw has certainly made its mistakes yet it seems to be the only company taking heat way out of proportion for the hiccups it’s encountered. I think that once in a while we should step back and give these guys a break and thank them for providing us great gear at even better prices. Even more, we should praise them for letting us speak our minds (sometimes at their expense) in this chat area.

I too, am sorry for the ramble but I wanted to get that off my chest.

Out.

[This message has been edited by jetsetter (edited October 30, 2002).]

Agree! After some thought I think it boils down to 1)alot of po'd people waiting for missed release dates, and 2)with a $3k somewhat complicated pre/pro people seem willing to "accept" these problems, as well as Anthem being a known quanity. A $899 pre/pro from a relative newcomer/first venture into a pre/pro that has some issues, well lets just say the overwhelming naysayer conclusion is "it must be a piece of crap". Myself, I've got a few too many of my own issues to let the 950 get me razzled, I just worked them out and enjoy it.

Oooh, a psychological data point I heard once:

People with cheaper gear (more cost effective ), tend to review their gear more critically than people with more expensive gear.

Why? Because the people with the more expensive gear don't want to confront the potential fact that they may have made a mistake in their purchase. People with cheaper gear don't care as much, because it's easier to "turn the gear over" and get something else. So they can be more realistic about whether a piece meets their needs or not.

Refernced to the reviews at audioreview.com. That's why, for example, if you ever see a pair of $300 bookshelf speakers really well reviewed, more than likely it's the real deal, vs a pair of $10k speakers...

I'll be curious as to when the reviews to the B&K Ref 50 start rolling in. A lot cheaper (street) than the Anthem, but the Ref 30 was really well reviewed on audioreview.com.

But, don't got no triple crossover... So in that regard, the 950 wins for me.

One other thing to chew on. A friend has the Anthem in question and IMHO it is an excellent unit and I wouldn't mind one myself, now for the morsel to chew on. When the 1050 came out($499) the remote was ripped on left and right and just plain disrespected well the AVM-20($3499) comes with guess what......the very same remote!
Just something to think about. Its all in perspective. Most pre-amp have had their share of troubles.



------------------
m-mmeyer
GO TWINS
My DVD's

Yeah, the Anthem has either the newer model, or a slightly different model but still from the same manufacturer remote as the 950.


[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited November 01, 2002).]

I listened to two 950's that were made before the production halt (the halt that was supposed to fix the hiss) and to two 950's that were made after production resumed. Each of the four 950's hissed noticably in *my* system. Some hissed more than others, but each hissed from far over a foot from my speakers even with the 950's volume set very low. No component I've ever had in my system has hissed as noticably.

I'm keeping my 950 but I really wish it did not hiss so much.

I happened to drop into a shop the other day and heard a setup featuring a Krell CD player, Krell preamp and Krell monoblock amps driving a large pair of ribbon speakers. The hiss was very noticeable, even at a low volume setting, from several feet away. Does this mean Krell makes inferior equipment?

One little item you're conveniently overlooking: The AVM-20 is both hardware and software upgradable and the 950 is not. Sonic Frontiers can correct the problems with their processor and pass those fixes on to their customers. With the Outlaw you're stuck with what you've got.

[This message has been edited by dpippel (edited November 01, 2002).]

It is unfortunately a sign of the times: it seems that good, sound engineering principles are not the norm. I have a friend who has been an analog design angineer since the early 70's. He has repeadedly told me that is is getting extremely difficult to find good _experienced_ analog designers now. All that is taught in electronic engineering classes in colleges today is digital design. Analog gets _very_ little time; it's an afterthought. No wonder that the analog stages of even high priced equipment is inferior to what it was even twenty years ago.