OK, Merc asked...

The Anthem is a beautiful, beautiful unit. "Heft", engineering, and asthetics.

But I personally don't think the Anthem is worth either 3x the price of the 950, or more than $2k more than the 950. There *are* differences, but I'm a waitin' SCJim's comments before I post any further...



[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited October 19, 2002).]

What happened at the head-to-head?

(If you want the quick and dirty answer, skip to the bottom of this posting.)

As Kevin has already mentioned, he and I did a head-to-head of the Anthem AVM20 to the Outlaw 950 on Wednesday of this week. If you have been following this thread, you know that I declared following a head-to head in a local high-end stereo shop, that the Outlaw 950 paled in comparison to the Anthem. I believe that I said that the Anthem stack “buried the Outlaw 950/770 pair with neither last rites nor a funeral”.

First, the following speakers were used on both tests:

Front Speakers: JBL S312
Center Channel: B.I.C. DV62CLR
Surrounds: Klipsch Quintet
Subwoofer: Infinity HPS-250
Cables: 4 Monster and 1 DIY Cat-5

So, having now performed a shootout between the two units, what can I conclude?

Having listened very closely and critically, I can now say that the Anthem does, in fact, produce better quality sound. The highs are much cleaner, the bass is tighter and the soundstage is much more airy. Listening to the same Diana Krall CD I used for the in-store head-to-head, I was struck by the clarity of the cymbals, guitars and, most noticeably, her voice. This unit sounds amazing.

Further, the Anthem is infinitely configurable. You are presented with a myriad of choices, from timing adjustments to account for video delay, to level adjustments that allow you to compensate for an especially hot audio source. Also, the Anthem unit can be upgraded, pushing out its window of obsolescence. (Outlaw’s decision not to include an upgrade path was, in my opinion, a fundamental mistake.)

As a musician, when I listen to a recording, I want the experience to mirror the original event as closely as possible. I am looking for nuance and accuracy. If I close my eyes, I expect to be sitting in the studio, watching the session. I want to hear the placement of the instruments and vocalists. While listening to the Diana Krall CD during the head-to-head, I said to Kevin, “I can almost hear the spit in her mouth.” The Anthem provides that level of accuracy in an A/V pre-amp.

In terms of home-theater performance, the Anthem offers every digital decoding scheme you could want, including THX-Ultra2. Watching the crash scene at the beginning of “Pitch Black”, the Anthem sounded amazing. Watching the Matrix last evening, my girlfriend actually jumped with surprise on at least two occasions. I could not hear any hiss unless I stuck my ears on the tweeters.

In terms of build quality, the Anthem is a solid, well-designed unit. The front controls are somewhat busy. But, as Kevin mentioned, this unit has heft. Further, the Anthem offers balanced outputs to ensure minimal noise is introduced on the interconnects between the pre-amp and the amplifier. In short, the Anthem AVM20 is well designed and it offers most everything a home-theater enthusiast could desire… at a $3000 price tag.

On to the 950…

The 950 does not offer the same sonic quality or flexibility. In terms of sound, the 950 produces highs that are flatter and mushier. The soundstage is not as apparent. The bass is more muddled. The vocals are less defined and not as spacious. The 950 is well built but it does not possess the same heft as the AVM20.

The Outlaw is certainly not as configurable. There are some settings on the Anthem that I think the 950 could certainly use. If the Outlaws had included an upgrade mechanism on the 950, those features could have been added later. (Hint, hint, Outlaw!)

How does the 950 compare?

In terms of home-theater performance, the 950 certainly holds its own. It has most of the digital decoding schemes a home-theater enthusiast would want. The sound quality is very good.

When listening to music, I have to give the Anthem the clear edge. (Anthem 9 - Outlaw 7.) The Oultaw did not provide the same soundstage and clarity that the Anthem offered. That conclusion does not change.

Does the Outlaw 950 pale in comparison? Well, yes and no. It depends upon your criteria. Does the Anthem sound better? An emphatic “Yes!” I could hear subtle yet, to my ears, very noticeable and important differences between the Outlaw 950 and the Anthem AVM20. The Anthem handles music substantially better than the Outlaw. For movies, the differences are not as great. I would give the Anthem’s cinema peformance a “9” to the Outlaw’s “8”.

The fundamental question…

Is the Anthem AVM20 worth the added expense? I can only answer that question with a question. What is the added sound quality and functionality worth to you? I hear a difference and that difference makes all the difference. The Anthem is certainly a better sounding unit.

Does it bury the Outlaw? Well, the Anthem pre/pro and amplifier combo costs just over twice as much. Therefore, for its price, the Outlaw represents an amazing value!

So, I guess I’ll stand by what I said in the original post…

You get what you pay for!

I will, however, add an amendment…

In my opinion, Outlaw Audio has succeeded in its mission. The Outlaw 950/770 still sounds amazing. For the price, I don’t think you can beat it.

If money is an object, the Outlaw 950/770 is a great value. However, if you have the wherewithal, buy the Anthem. You will not regret it!

As for me, I am truly torn. I have to choose by Wednesday night. I’ll let you know.

Regards,
Santa Clara Jim

Hi Jim,

In any home theater, balance is key. Personally, if I had JBL S312 front speakers (available new for under $142 a pair at eCost.com) and a BIC DV62CLR center speaker (available new for under $130 at nowOnSpecial.com) and the KLIPSCH Quintet Microsystem surrounds, I'd probably upgrade my speakers, to better match the capabilities of either the Anthem or Outlaw.

Whatever differences you heard between a properly set up Anthem and Outlaw should pale mightily, in comparison to the differences you should hear after upgrading your speakers, from those three different vendors. I hope you re-balance your home theater, whether you get the Outlaw or the Anthem. The difference in price between the Outlaw 950/770 and the Anthem combo (presumably the AVM20 + MCA-50 + MCA-20 = about $6K) may be used to buy speakers, if you were so inclined.

Good luck with your Wednesday decision!

Will

[This message has been edited by Will (edited October 19, 2002).]

i have to be honest here. i expected much more in this comparison.

it sounds like, though you are 'torn', your comparison consisted of your favorite cd, a few dd 5.1 movie soundtracks, ear-to-tweeter hiss test and the comparative weight of the prepros.

no sacd, no dvd-a, no dts music video, you didn't switch amps to compare them, no phase adjustment feature info on the anthem, video switching, eq, crossover change effect, what does thx ultra II add, if anything, remote control, do balanced connections better the sound, warranty, dts es, dd ex, cirrus extra, etc.

i have no idea how these 2 units compare by your much awaited post.

And just out of curiousity, how loud was hiss on the 950 in this same configuration?

Will,

While I agree that balance is critical, I would only ask you if you have heard any of these speakers?

Of the speakers in the list, I would only replace the Klipsch.

As for the response from bossobass, patience is a virtue. I am sorry you are disappointed but 1) my life does not revolve around my home theater and 2) we tested a great deal more but trying to describe it all would be prohibitively time-consuming.

If you have have specific questions, please pose them. I will be conducting further tests this weekend.

Charlie,

I noticed slightly less hiss on the Anthem. You might want to ask Kevin about that.

More to follow,

SC Jim

OK, I personally didn't (or couldn't! ) hear the differences as being as apparent as what Jim posted.

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I *did* want to hear a difference. I want to fully believe that if you spend the difference between the Anthem and the 950, that you indeed do get something for your money.

But at least in sound quality alone, I don't think that was the case. I *maybe* heard a little more open top end, and a little more more ayre (hee, hee) in the high frequencies, but that was it. We did focus on CDs, and the CD format itself can be problematic. Jim does have a brand spanking new Pioneer 45a, so maybe if he gets a chance, he could try some DVD-A's or some SACDs before he has to decide.

But. The Anthem is a lot more flexible in the setup parameters. (S&V was right, in their comparison between this guy, the Sunfire, and the Aragon.) There wasn't much in terms of config options that the Anthem *doesn't* have.

There was some hiss on Jim's system, but quite acceptable in both the 950's case and the Anthem. (We didn't really compare that night, but sounds like Jim did later on.)

There were some suggestions I made concerning the room that would help the sound a little, and maybe make the differences more apparent, or maybe not. (He has a tile floor, and I suggested an area rug in front of the speakers to reduce reflections, and he does have room to move the speakers forward from the front wall a little more. Another idea, Jim, is to put a tapesty or something on the wall to the right of your system, in the front. You have the sliding glass doors on the left side with the curtains, and that's OK there.)

Jim's mains and sub are in phase. But here's where the scientificness of phase gets interesting. On my system, "out of phase" to "in phase" gives me about a 5 dB difference in sound level. On Jim's, we got maybe 1 or 2 dB. (Roughly the same volume, using an 80 Hz test tone, what he had the crossover set at.) I have a variable phase knob, and Jim's sub has a switch. The conclusion? Jim's switch allows him the choice between "more in phase" and "less in phase" but not from 0 to 180 deg, more like 60 deg to 240 deg or something.

Here's how I would look at it, and Jim mentioned some of this in his review. If I had an Anthem, and could afford it, I'd keep it. If I already had the 950, and was looking into Anthem, I would keep the 950. But the Anthem is a piece of gear you buy now, and probably still have 4 years from now. The 950? Maybe a year or 2 piece of gear. Simply because of its lower price, you can upgrade later on, sooner.

"There was some hiss on Jim's system, but quite acceptable in both the 950's case and the Anthem"

So Kevin your saying you could hear hiss thru the Anthem. Presume you mean without any source playing? Any tape measured distance / ear to tweeter to report?

Based on the hiss you heard from each unit, do you belive the 950s to be acceptable/just highly talked about. I guess why I'm asking is you hear no hiss complaints at the HTF on the Anthem/several other issues (not all positive) are being discussed.

To me its interesting how much the 950s hiss continues to be discussed/given that it appears you heard a similar hiss from the Anthem. More and more, it seems to go back to "system dependent", and those with unacceptable hiss have a unhappy marriage among their equipment somewhere.

The only question I have is when you compared the 2 units on CD's, what were you using for DAC's: the player or the processor? (digital or analog input to the processor?)

I use a dedicated DAC, so all I need from a processor is transparency of the analog signal. Asking a HT processor to do a great job converting CD bits to music is a difficult task and one that most HT units do not stress in their design.

If the differences with CD's was significant using analog inputs, to me THAT means something. If it was with digital inputs, for the $2200 extra it costs to buy the Anthem, you could buy a great CD player or DAC.

AJ- We used the digital input exclusively.

As far as hiss... It's tricky because I didn't do a direct comparison. Here's the dope: I know the 950 *in my system* hisses more than the Sony TA-E9000ES it replaced. I can hear hiss out to 4 ft from my rear center, and out to 2 ft on every other speaker. The Sony? Ear to the tweeter is the only way I can hear it.

OK, so in Jim's system, I only checked the Anthem. (I *should* have brought the stupid check list I had up above, oh well...). From Jim's mains, I could hear the Anthem hiss to about 1 ft. I did not check the 950. The other caveat is, for whetever reason, Jim's unit also hissed "differently" in my system. Pretty much across the board, it was about 2 ft, even the rear center. But the replacement unit Outlaw sent me to make sure I didn't have a faulty unit, acted the exact same way mine did. Go figure.