i've read posts favorably comparing an hk 520, sherwood 6070, pioneer whatever, etc, to the 950, all the while my headache mounting. i've read complaints aplenty concerning the 950's remote, lame 5.1 setup, unacceptable hiss, double bass, switching from stereo to 6 ch. bypass, at this point suffering a migraine extraordinare.

now, it's the anthem for twice as much money (though i really would like to know who is selling one, with upgrade, for $1850, including sales tax). it sounded better? somebody call mike wallace.

the avm20 is a great piece of hardware. but, the 950 incoherent, mushy, flat, lifeless, very muddled soundstage???

my pain completely left me when suddenly i realized the answer!!!!!!!!...my 950 is a freak. c'mon, Scott, fess up....mine is modded, hot-rodded, juiced......SOMETHING.

when i finished reading the post above, i panicked, ran into my listening room, popped in spyro gyra "in modern times" multichannel sacd. cut #4. cranked it. closed my eyes.....
ahhhhhhhhhhh. crystal clear coherence. i could follow scott ambush's fingers on that azola fretless as they slid down to drop me with the deepest, smoothest low note, while the tiny percussion symphony danced through the widest soundstage i've ever heard in a room, behind, in front, overhead, swimming, floating through lush reverb and subtle keyboard triggered effects, all introducing the sax (an instrument i normally am annoyed by) that demanded i realize precisely where it is positioned and that the melody belonged to it.

auditioning the 950 with a stereo cd and a dd soundtrack is like test driving an s series mercedes by coasting down your driveway with the engine off.

yes...the anthem is a step up, but it ain't no $1500 step. not to me. and certainly not to my obviously (what else would explain it) super-charged, custom modified, 950.

oh, and yes...i HAVE listened to rotel, lex, krell, tag, b&k, onkyo, denon, marantz, hk, pioneer, yamaha, sony and macintosh, with extra cheese.

Santa Clara Jim,

OK, your integrated amp is a 1976 model.

Is the Denon CD player you are using to play Diana Krall also quite old? If you are using analog interconnects, are they real old cables? Did you try connecting the CD player to your 950 using not the analog interconnects, like you have to with the 1976 model integrated amp, but with a digital (COAX or OPTICAL) interconnect?

I would be frankly, quite surprised if your 26 year old electronic amp has a better soundstage than your 950. There's probably a good explanation for what you're hearing. Let's not give up.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited October 03, 2002).]

Will,

The CD player is about 6 years old. Yes, it does use analog interconnects. Yes, it sounds better with the HK and the Anthem.

I am not giving up. I would rather keep the Outlaw gear. It's a better value. If you can find a explanation for the difference, I would sincerely welcome it. I would rather save the money.

Here's what I know.

I have heard the 950 and the Anthem with the same interconnects and the same CD. The Anthem sounded better.

I have heard the Outlaw and the HK using the same player and the same interconnects. The HK sounded better. Both used analog interconnects. Both used the CD player's processor.

The speakers were set to both large and small. I tried the crossovers at three different settings. The 950 was in processor and bypass mode. The 950 should have little audible effect in bypass mode, right?

At the store, the 950 and the Anthem used a very high-end CD player with an Coaxial digital interconnect. The Anthem sounded better.

is there a setting I should have tweak on the 950?

Regards,
Santa Clara Jim

Bosso,

The twice the price referred to $5000 for the AVM20/MCA-50 combo.

As for my observations, I have absolutely no agenda. It's just what I heard.

Regards,
Santa Clara Jim

Santa Clara Jim,

I won't disagree if you prefer the Anthem AVM20/MCA-50 to the Outlaw 950/770. But I'm intrigued that you prefer a 26 year old budget integrated amp to the Outlaw 950/770. My guess is something is set up wrong. If you were local, I'd invite you over so you can hear what a well set up Outlaw rig is capable of sounding like. Perhaps someone local to you in Santa Clara will invite you over to hear what their 950 is capable of. Don't go to some store, go to somebody's home, who has their 950 set up right.

One thing that may be hurting the soundstage when you use your 950 are your speakers and your speaker positions. I'm talking about your main (left and right only) speakers. If your 1976 integrated amp has a warm mushy sound compared to the 950, your speakers may need to be repositioned so they sound good with your 950/770.

Also, I have run across some really lousy CD players (especially CD changers) and some really lousy analog cables in my day, and the 950 will reproduce everything upstream, including whatever's not quite right upstream. A lesser pre amp might not notice the garbage but with the 950, it's garbage in - garbage out magnified.

The 950 has plenty of faults. I will be the first to point them out. Nevertheless, the 950/770 combo should present a far better more accurate and realistic sound stage than your 26 year old integrated amp. The 950 is probably a little crisper than your warm sounding integrated amp however.

Will

[This message has been edited by Will (edited October 03, 2002).]

Jim:
For all it's worth, I have a vacuum tube preamp in line with my front left and right speakers, and I have the analog output of my Sony CD player connected directly to one of the line inputs of this preamp. The 950 is connected to another line input of the preamp, and this way I can switch back and forth at will to compare a 'pure' analog path from the CD and the output from the 950 in it's various modes. I have listened to many CDs with this setup, and the result is that I cannot tell one bit of difference between the 950 (in any stereo mode) and the direct connection. As Will suggests, there might be some other factor in the bad sound from your 950. You might try duplicating my setup using your existing HK preamp and switching back and forth through two of it's inputs; maybe you might uncover something that is causing the bad sound in your 950.

Jim: i appreciate the heads up, but i realized that you have no agenda. i don't doubt your ears. i only countered your (and other's) post with what I hear. i meant to suggest, like the others here, that there is certainly a problem with your 950 and/or setup. no preamp i've heard "buries" the 950.

Given that there are still unresolved issues with regard to hiss with some units demonstrating more than others, perhaps we have QC issue here. I would hope that there would be very little variation between samples, but this appears to NOT be the case with the 950.

All,

The cables that were used were Audio Quest. I believe that the CD player was Music Fidelity. The speakers were Dynaudio.

I can't imagine that the cables were the cause of the problem. If so, why would I hear similar characteristics both at home and at the store. Different cables, different CD players, different DVD players, different speakers.

As I have said before, I would still prefer to keep the Outlaw gear. If it sounds as good, it would be a screaming value.

If someone can show me a misconfiguration on my part, I would:

a)welcome it.
b)eat large helpings of crow.
c)merrily reinstall my Outlaw gear.

I am in the Santa Clara, California, near San Jose. Anyone interested in helping me figuring this thing out? Your help would be appreciated.

Regards,
Santa Clara Jim



[This message has been edited by santaclarajim (edited October 03, 2002).]

What speakers were you using in this shootout?

Dan