No, I don't think so. I know the Sony can play louder. Maybe it's just a question of gain or headroom or whatever, but it's a fact on my system.

I normally played CDs at -50 dB or so on the Sony. I actually accidentally turned it on once around -20 dB. I *know* the Outlaw can't play as loud as I had the Sony. I thought I had blown a tweeter...

"No, I don't think so."

Well, I know so. Unless you have a reference (which is the beauty of the system) any talk of maximum volume is meaningless, whether you think so or not. Read page 27 of the Manual, where it talks about channel calibration. The reason you hear the term "reference" is there IS a reference. If you don't calibrate to reference, any talk about relative and maximum volume is truly meaningless, because there is no reference, whether you think so or not.

The reference is that I know how far the +/- goes for calibration on both the Sony and 950. There's no way the 950 can play as loud as the Sony, even with the cals maxed out on the 950, and the Sony as is...

Sigh. Try this. Set up both processors using their internal reference tones so that 0db = 75db on the RS meter. Put on T-2, Opening Scene, Fight Club Scenes 34 and 35, or any other sonic blockbuster. Set the volume at 0db. Both processors should/will be equally loud, provided they are calibrated properly, and they both will blast you out of the room at both these films loudest parts. If they vary in loudness, you have not calibrated the systems properly, believe it if you will.

Yo! What's all this about calibration? Isn't 4HT saying at the 950's maximum volume control position his sound level is nowhere near clipping? Shouldn't he be looking at 950 output level in volts and his amp's input level required for full rated output?

Yo. You see there are two ways to increase the output of the 950: via the volume control or VIA THE CHANNEL CALIBRATION MENU. Now our friend 4HT has very ineffecient speakers. His Maggies are like 85 db efficient, on a good day. My M&K S-150's are 90-91db efficient and -2 gets me to reference at 0DB with my amp. I would wager that 4HT's inefficient Maggies should be set at around +2 or +3. He instead has them set at 0 and -2 so he is losing around 5db minimum of output because he hasn't calibrated his system. Reference is not relative, it is absolute. If you haven't calibrated your system so that you know what reference is, all this talk about output level is meaningless. Relative output means squat. Absolute output calibrated to reference: we can talk. Some of you rather than arguing from ignorance should try and learn something. Maybe then you'll be able to solve your output issues. The THX/Dolby Digital system used for films is a closed system with a well defined reference. If you care about the reference great, we can talk intelligently. If not, go wallow in your ignorance. Sorry to be so harsh, but some people clearly revel in arguing for arguing's sake with no desire to learn something.

I agree with Tony,there is no point in arguing,my own reference level when i am pushing is 82db for a theoretical max of 112db,Believe me when i say THAT IS LOUD....

I *still* say the Sony plays louder. See, it has 11 on the volume knob. The Outlaw only goes up to 10. The Sony is one louder.


OK, I get it. One difference is that the Sony's volume knob reads - 100 to 0 dB, whereas the Outlaw's is -80 to +10. But out of the box, everything is naturally about 30 "dB" lower (or higher, depending on how you look at it) for the Sony compared to the Outlaw, hence the perception it plays louder.

There actually is no mention of referencing in the Sony manual, just balancing levels. And even for the Outlaw, it says that if 0 dB at 75 dB is too loud, to use -10 dB. But then it's not absolutely referenced anymore.

Bottom line, both are plenty loud enough for me...


[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited October 03, 2002).]

Kevin, I don't know what model Sony processor you have, but my Sony EP9ES does not have a 'reference zero' setting on it's volume control. Therefore it depends on where I have the volume knob when I set the level using the internal trim settings for how much 'top end' max volume I get.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited October 03, 2002).]

Ok guys, I calibrated my system as recommended above. 950 test tones Vol @0, RS Sound Meter weighting 70 C/Slow Response and readings of +5 (I should say that the RS meter reading was fluctuating as much as +/-1; I settled at what I felt was closest to +5).

Here are my new channel settings:
Magnepan 1.6QR fronts = L+7; R+6
Tosh 65H82 Spkr Center = +3
Infinity HT10 surr = L+2; R+2

(Wasn't sure how to calibrate the sub, so I put it at -6). Happy to notice that there was no hissing from my speakers with the new settings.

I played a protion of Monsters Inc DVD and I felt that volume level between -2 and 0 on 950 dial was about right. I will try other dvds over the weekend and will post my findings.

Thanks for all the feedback!

-4HT