Received my 950 about a week and a half ago and I love it. The problem I am having is sometimes I feel like there is a lack of bass compared to my old Yamaha. The only question I have is what should I be crossing my speakers over at. On my old Yamaha receiver I used to set my speakers to large all around, so I never had to worry about crossovers. Now I am trying to set my speakers to small and see how that works. I have Paradigm monitor 11s for the front with a Paradigm cc-350 for the center. For the rears I am using mini-monitors. My sub is a Klipsch KSW-12 which I have set all the way up to 120. I calibrated all the speakers, including the sub at 75 db. I have the front crossover at 60 and the center and the rears at 80. Should I set the crossovers to 80 across the board? Any recommendations? I know it is a matter of preference but I just wanted to get some insight.

Like you, I'm using Paradigm speakers (Studios instead of Monitors, so it's not exactly the same). I would probably have chosen the settings that you are currently using for the speakers that you have. You may want to play with the mains at 80Hz, though, just to see what difference it makes. Play with the crossover for the mains and possibly the sub trim using some familiar material and see what you like.

Also, did the Yamaha have any sort of "bass boost" mode that you had been using? If so, that may be why you are noticing a difference.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Hi:

I have been meaning to post this, and this seems like a good time to do so.

I have NHT 1.5s for my main speakers. I also notice a lack of bass, and the mid-range sounds a little lacking compared to my RX-V795 Yamaha when playing CD in stereo mode. I did not use the Yamaha's bass boost switch, and the bass knob was set at the 0 position. I have 950's cross-over set to 100Hz for the fronts and center. The mid-range is slightly better compared to 80Hz. I still however notice a lack of bass with CD material. I am not sure what else I can do. BTW, I have HSU VTF-3, and its internal cross-over is disabled. All the speakers have been adjusted to 75db using 950's internal pink noise source.

Lack of bass can sometimes be due to having the mains out of phase with the sub. Try flipping the phase switch on the sub.

The other thing you might want to try, is to play some material that has some bass in it. Turn off the amp channels to the mains. Make sure that you are getting any sub output at all.

Yamaha crosses over at 90 Hz. You could try the 950 at 80 Hz and 100 Hz to see if that makes any difference too.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mstmorse:
I have Paradigm monitor 11s for the front with a Paradigm cc-350 for the center. For the rears I am using mini-monitors. My sub is a Klipsch KSW-12 which I have set all the way up to 120. I calibrated all the speakers, including the sub at 75 db.
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hi mstmorse,

just a checklist:
1.) did you switch to c-weighting to calibrate the sub?
2.) as KCB suggested, try phase adjustment on the sub.
3.) the monitor 11's are rated to (+/- 2db) 40hz, so try the x-over at 40 for the mains and set your sub x-over to 60hz and adjust it from there.
4.) is it the same sub you used with the yamaha? if so, is it the same placement? you could try the simplest placement technique i know of. place the sub in the listening position, then crawl around the room with bass material playing until you find the location where the low end sounds best. place the sub there. barring more involved and expensive measures, you should have the optimum set-up at this point.
5.) the easiest way to compare though, is to set your speakers to large the same as you did with the yamaha in which case, depending on the source material and where the sub's x-over was set, you may have experienced double bass, or a bump at around 45hz and may have become used to hearing it as normal.
(am not familiar with the yamaha, just a guess).

jimr: i personally think of hsu as one of the few guys who gets it. i'm curious...did your sub come with a recommendation as to where generally to set the x-over?

I need to correct my previous post. The fronts are crossed over at 80Hz and this the setting which sounds the best. NHT 1.5 spec mentions 53Hz +- 3db as the lowest frequency. I have the VTF-3 's crossover turned off.

I've always heard that the mains should be crossed over to the sub, at a freq 1 full octave above the low freq extension of the mains. This prevents the imposed slope from the crossover from interacting with the natural drop off in the mains, i.e., cascading filters.

So for example, if a speaker is flat to 40 Hz or so, the *ideal* crossover point would be 80 Hz (one full octave up from 40 Hz). (Double going up, 1/2 going down.)

But your ears have to be the judge.

I have a method for setting sub level that has worked very well for me. I didn't set my subwoofer level using the Speaker Configuration on the 950 at all. Check my post toward the end of the thread titled "Long Overdue Review". I explain the process there. It requires an SPL meter and some type of source that provides frequency sweep tones or something similar. What I do is check the level of the test tones that should be coming from the main speakers with tones that should be coming only from the sub, and then adjust either the volume control of the sub, or adjust the sub trim level on the 950 to get the output level of the sub the same as the main speakers. I used this method even before I got my 950.

BTW, I agree with KCB that generally, the best crossover point for the sub is one octave above the -3dB point of your mail speakers, however, as you can see from the graph, I got pretty good results at 80Hz, 60 Hz, and 40 Hz. I run my mains crossed over at 40 Hz, as the bass in my mains is "quicker" or "tighter" than in my sub, so I wanted to run them as low as I could without getting a "hole" in my frequency response. I also agree that your ears have to be the final judge. If you get set up for flat frequency response, but you don't like it that way, tweak it to your preference with your ears.

[This message has been edited by Skyfish (edited September 25, 2002).]

Most of the Yamaha receivers send a full range signal to the mains as well as info below 80 Hz to the sub. It's possible if configured this way you may have grown accustomed to the added bass.

I hope I am not alone in this, but what exactly is an octave? I've heard talk about it, but I don't really understand what it is.

From what I understand, one octave is the difference between two frequencies separated by a 2:1 ratio. So to go up one octave, you double the frequency (from 40Hz to 80Hz, or from 500Hz to 1,000Hz), and to go down one octave, you halve the frequency (from 40Hz to 20Hz, or 500Hz to 250Hz). Hence Kevin's

So what is an octave, really? The 2:1 definition doesn't really totally satisfy me, so the musical side of it may help some. Musical notes are broken into octaves, with the same "notes" repeating in each octave. The note "middle C" on a piano sounds similar (or complementary) to the "C" note that is one octave higher or lower.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BenjaminRigby:
[B]I hope I am not alone in this, but what exactly is an octave? I've heard talk about it, but I don't really understand what it is.
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an octave is an interval of 8 diatonic tones:
a,b,c,d,e,f,g,a= 1 octave.
in hertz speak, an octave is the effect of doubling a given frequency going up in pitch or halving that frequency going down in pitch.
example: an electric bass guitar open E string is 41.2 hz.
12 frets up (1 octave higher: E, e#, F, f#, G, g#, A, a#, B, C, c#, D, d#, E...diatonic steps in CAPS) is 82.4 hz.
a low C on a pipe organ with a 32 foot long pipe is 16.35 hz. (put THAT in your svs and smoke it).

SKYFISH: very cool explanation of how to integrate your sub with the mains.
KCB is correct on paper, but i have found that in real life, bass guitar, bass tuba, some kick drums, synthesizers and pipe organs are the only instruments that reach below 60 hz. i don't like music with sub set any higher as it sounds too artificial and , as you said..the mains are better suited to handle that range, imo, you are right.

of course ht lfe is a different story.

There's more stuff down low than you may think. The lowest note on a piano is 27.5 Hz. Anyone know what the lowest note on a 5 string bass guitar is? I think on a 4 string it's about 40 Hz. I wish more bass players would switch to 5 string. I love that gut-shaking low stuff. It sounds great if done right.

sorry...i forgot, low a on a standard keyboard is 27.5. also, in my post above, there is no e#...sheesh.

if you tune your 5 string beadg, i think the low b is 30.87, and i agree, it's great.

this 950 is amazingly crystal clear, the soundfield is a new experience for me in SACD multi. but the low end is the best i have ever heard...at any price. i'm just enjoying this so much.

Bossobass is correct, low note on a 5 string is Low B at 30.87 hz. Some players will extend it to a Low A. The bass of a bass drum is below that. A good musical example of this is Tomorrow's Girl's on Donald Fagen's Kamakiriad (sp?). The low note is a B flat (about 29 hz). On a system with good low extension and separation, you'll hear the bass guitar playing the B flat at 58 Hz and then drop the octave and play the B flat at 29 hz.

Y ou can have speakers that go way down into the 20 hz range ( I have a pair 0f Walsh 5's rated down to 25HZ) and you still want experience the deep bass cross over at 40 as you will at 80hz. That is , if you have a real quality sub (I have the M&K ). Anything you take some of that low signal away from your sub and put it into your mains, or anywhere, thats less the sub has to work with and, its the speaker that is intended to handle these low signals. I STRONGLY believe in setting your crossovers to 80, no lower , regardless of the level of your speakers. I refer this to Home Theater applications only. Music is a totaling different story!