Have 7 speakers +ub set up. Tried using the Neo mode but cannot get it to come on. Tried it on regular satellite, DTS-ES Dvd, Dolby digital dvd, 5.1 satellite. I can engage the cirrus mode, dts, dts-es, dolby, dolby ex. Where is the Neo mode??? Also the manual shows 5 & 7 channel stereo, can't find them either? But most important the Neo mode.

NEO:6 and Stereo 5/7 will only work on two-channel inputs. Try an audio CD, you should be able to turn them on then.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I think that 5 & 7 stereo only work if your center speaker is activated in the input config menu also.

According to the manual the Neo 6 works with digital & analog. 2 channel matrix & 5.1. Have all 7 speakers on but cannot get Neo to engage at all.

Yes, NEO:6 will work with digital or analog inputs, but the signal needs to be two-channel (analog or digital PCM) for NEO:6 to work. The manual may be a little misleading there (they say "mode can produce the rear surround information from a 5.1 source" -- but what they mean is that it can automatically create rear surround information, but the "5.1 source" has to be the 5.1 source that NEO:6 created from the two-channel input). Try this quote from DTS Online :



NEO:6 will not work with Dolby 2.0 audio (which is what you'll get from your DVD player, digital cable box, or satellite box when they are connected via a digital cable). 5/7 Stereo is the same way. (Just tried both using my digital cable box to confirm it.)

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

gonk,

I think both those quotes are referring to something other than 2-channel sources; they're talking about extracting the surround back channel from properly encoded DTS-ES Matrix mixes (ES = Extended Surround), which are technically 5.1 discrete channels, as opposed to DTS-ES Discrete mixes which are true 6.1.

When the surround back channel was first introduced to home theatres, both THX Surround EX and DTS-ES Matrix used Dolby Pro Logic decoding to extract the additional surround channel that had been matrixed in. Since then, some things have changed: THX Surround EX still uses Pro Logic, but DTS has mandated that their Neo:6 decoding be used on ES-Matrix encoded soundtracks, and licensees of Dolby Digital EX are allowed to use either old Pro Logic or PL II (I think most manufactureres are using the latter, at least I hope they are).

Having said that, I agree with you that the wording of the Neo:6 descriptions are confusing; both in the Outlaw manual and at DTS Online.

Best,
Sanjay

Excellent point. So, in theory it may be possible to use NEO:6 with DTS-ES Matrix soundtracks (which are very few and far between -- the only DTS-ES disc that I have is Gladiator, and the 950 identifies it as ES Discrete), but in that case it may show up as being DTS-ES (with NEO:6 being used in the background). Likewise, DTS-ES when used with standard DTS soundtracks (which I have done with the 950, so I know it works) may actually be DTS plus NEO:6 to produce the surround back. I hadn't thought of it that way...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Well, it's not only possible to use Neo:6 with DTS-ES soundtracks, it's a requirement! Whenever you see the ES logo these days, you can be sure that Neo:6 technology is being used to extract the surround back channel. Like I said, it wasn't a requirement originally but it is now if you want to license DTS-ES.

And speaking of licensing DTS technologies; from what I've read, in order to display a DTS logo on a reciever or pre-pro, the manufacturer has to take on all DTS technologies (with the possible exception of DTS 96/24). For example: with PL II and Logic 7 already included, the last thing the MC-12 needed was another matrix decoder for 2-channel sources. However, in order to license DTS-ES, Lexicon HAD to include both versions (music & film) of Neo:6. BTW, I know some of the above is off topic, but I find some of this behind-the-scenes intrigue endlessly fascinating. All DTS-ES Discrete soundtracks are also DTS-ES Matrix soundtracks; i.e., even on 6.1 channel soundtracks, the surround back channel is still matrixed into the left & right surround channels for backwards compatibility. However, that doesn't always work the other way around: an ES-Matrix soundtrack doesn't neccessarily mean it is ES-Discrete. In fact, out of all ES labeled soundtracks out there, only something like 15 are EX-Discrete. Yes: whenever you engage ES decoding, whether that particular DTS DVD (or DTS CD or LaserDisc) is ES encoded or not, the surround back channel is being extracted using Neo:6. And actually, on a few processors - like the Anthem AVM-20 - if the ES soundtrack isn't flagged and the processor doesn't automatically go to DTS-ES mode, you have to manually switch it over: but instead of pushing a button marked "ES" or "dts-ES" or anything like that, you have to select Neo:6 (even though it seems counter-intuitive at first to choose a matrix decoder mode for a 5.1 soundtrack).

Anyway, most of the time, back-channel extraction is user-transparent and you're never really aware which matrix decoder is being used with which 6-channel mode. I mean, when your 950 doesn't detect EX encoding on a 5.1 soundtrack, you don't push the PL II button (even though that may in fact be the technology being used). Also keep in mind that you're using only one aspect of Neo:6; i.e., the "front half". Aside from giving you surround channels, all matrix decoders take the two main channels and extract a centre channel up front; it is that part (and that part only) of the matrix decoder that is being used for back channel extraction.

Best,
Sanjay

I watched Rush Hour 2 which is Dts-es, tried to get the Neo6 to work with it but ng. All I could get was either Dts or Dts-es. Am I doing something wrong.

Nope, you're fine, Steve. Sanjay's point is that whenever we use DTS-ES, the "ES" surround back channel is being produced using the NEO:6 algorithm (much like Dolby EX uses PL II to produce the surround back channel). So when you switched to DTS-ES, the 950 was using NEO:6 to generate the surround back channel -- it just doesn't show us what it's doing. The NEO:6 mode will only be available for use with two-channel PCM material (any stereo analog input or digital audio from a CD player).

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review