A 3db loss in volume is just audible. Yes, if you cut the power by 3db, it is half the power. If you cut the VOLTAGE by 6db, it is half. A 10db change in volume is generally perceived by most people is being '1/2 as loud'. I would think the 3db lowering in gain was part of the 'fix' as this would contribute to a 3db lower noise floor if done in the output stage. It appears that the new units have a more drastic reduction in noise than what 3db would achieve however, so other steps were probably taken. In the end, just listen and enjoy, as the gain of a preamp has no bearing on your enjoyment, as long it is capable of driving your power amps to full output (and you out of the room). The only '3db of volume you are losing' at the top end, is what would probably be WAY into clipping of the power amp, not to mention your poor speakers, and your ears.



[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited September 12, 2002).]

It's not doubling the power demand on the amp to maintain the same volume?


(I ask these questions not beacuse I want to hate the 950, but because I want to buy it)

No, not at all. In real world terms, it is simply that the 950 won't drive the amp as hard (probably into useless clipping!) as a preamp with more gain. In listening, it makes absolutely no difference what the gain of a preamp is. As an aside, in engineering perspective, it is desirable to have only as much gain as needed to drive a power amplifier into clipping, and no more. Having more gain than is actually needed just increases the noise the preamp contributes. Trust me, Outlaw is probably doing you a favor in lowering the gain by 3db!

ScottAvery, I don't think you need to be concerned about this. I received my red dot Outlaw 950 and installed it yesterday. I did have to calibrate all 8 channels about 2-3dB hotter than my original version in order to achieve reference level (75dB) at 0dB on the volume control.

But, paradoxically, I found myself running the volume about 3dB lower than I would have with my original Outlaw 950. That is, I was watching DD5.1+CR at about -17dB rather than -14dB in a 30x15 room. If I tried to play this at reference level, I would have had to leave the building.

Using Aragon 8008x3 (200wpc) for front and Carver 705x (125wpc) for surround.

ScottAvery, what kind of amp and speakers will you be using? Also, how big is your room?

Here's a comparison, I think it should be ok to get the idea of we're saying.

Take the McLaren F1. It goes like 230-235 mph. Imagine putting a speed governer that lets it go "only" 225. Are you really going to notice? It's not the same as putting something like a Honda Civic engine into the car (which would be like putting in an amp that's much less powerful). How many people can control a car going this fast anyway? (how many amps can really put out the power to match that high of a volume?)

The last couple posts are right, Outlaw probably did us a favor in lowering the preamp gain so that the amp would not clip.

[This message has been edited by BenjaminRigby (edited September 12, 2002).]

Some music is quite soft, and sometimes you may want to turn the volume up.

The volume knob goes from -80 db to +10 db. Is the range between -80 and -70 used?

It's fine with me that when the volume is on the max, in a loud passage, that the amp will clip since I don't have to play it that loud and, it allows me to turn the volume more loudly on a softer passage.

I've read recommendations in several places to increse the pre-amp gain to improve headroom in the amp, especially with subwoofers. Hence the questions about the impact of reduced gain in the preamp.

and... I've always heard that it is always better to have your AMP gain turned all the ways up for best performance. John Curl at Parasound is known for designing hot amps with pumped up gains.

(Oops... my bad.)Actually, I should have said that Parasound turns up the bias on their amps...not the gains. ---Nevermind----
I guess you can tell I am no engineer...

[This message has been edited by merc (edited September 12, 2002).]

Gain and headroom are seperate issues in engineering terms. More or less gain does not impact headroom per se. The "gain" of a preamp is not adjustable anyway, it is fixed by it's designer; you are just regulating how much signal is fed to the outputs with the volume control. Like a garden hose; the water pressure is fixed (or should be!) and as you turn the spigot, you are just letting more or less water through. Same with a preamp, only less wet....