guys...maybe i have misread and/or misunderstood this subject all along.

my manual, on page 31 says:
BYPASS SETTING
"when playing an analog source you may bypass the model 950's digital processing system and listen to the source in "pure" two-channel stereo".

mains set to large, analog source, stereo bypass = "pure two-channel stereo"....no double bass....no subwoofer...this is exactly what my 950 does. what did i miss?

Is that what you hear??? Well, if so, that's what you are getting? In reality, although I haven't yet tried this on the "red dot" unit... you will still get subdued subwoofer output in this mode? Maybe?

This will be one of the 1st things I try when I get mine. Oh, in about 4 to 6 weeks-ish...

BoB, a few thoughts though: Are you sure you are listening to tune-age with enough low freq content that there is info that would be routed to the sub? An easy way to check this, is to use the L + R channels of the 5.1 analog inputs and make sure the 80 Hz analog crossover switch is engaged. If you do hear your sub, then try the exact same song the way you did. (Most rock for example, doesn't have a lot of content below 40 Hz, for example.) A test disc might be the best way to check this.

One other thing to check for, is that even is there is low freq content being routed to the sub, is it loud enough to kick on your sub's "auto" power on feature (if so equipped)? The test above would still be valid in that case too.

Would be kind of neat if the double bass problem was gone, for 2 channel as well as 5.1...

Kevin,

The "double-bass" issue does not (and has not) exist in the stereo bypass mode.

Scott

You must set your mains to full in order to not get double bass in stereo bypass mode. You have to go into the menu to change the setting if the mains are set to small in whatever listening mode you were using before. If your mains are set to small, in stereo bypass, you'll get double bass.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, Scott...

Page 6 of Version 1.2.6 of the manual states:



So, the mains will get the full range of the audio signals. The low frequencies are also sent to the subwoofer output, so if your subwoofer is turned on, you will get the low frequencies there too. I believe this is the "double bass" that every one is referring too. It can be eliminated by turning off the sub. But I think users/potential users feel that they shouldn't have to get up and go turn off the sub; the 950 should have an option to turn off the sub output when the unit is in bypass mode.

Now Scott says that double bass is not a problem in stereo mode. The manual seems to contradict him. I don't have the 950 yet (still have 5 more days to make up my mind) so I cannot say from personal experience. But if you have one, it should be easy enough to confirm for yourself. Take a test CD that has tones below 80-60Hz or so. Play them in stereo bypass mode, with the subwoofer on, and see if anything comes out of both your mains and the subwoofer.


[This message has been edited by Ellen (edited September 14, 2002).]

I've gone down this path before. If the mains are set to small there is indeed sound from my sub. If not there is not. But I normally have my mains set as small (like most people probably will), and would have to to futz in the menu each time to change it to large, and then back to small afterwards and so normally I don't bother to, and instead, just keep the mains small all the time because the double bass in stereo bypass to me just isn't a big enough deal to make it worth going through that hassle to eliminate it. YMMV.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ellen:

_____________________________________________
Now Scott says that double bass is not a problem in stereo mode. The manual seems to contradict him.
_____________________________________________

...please listen carefully (or as boblinds put it..."hear me now, or hear me later")

scott has been saying this all along, or at least since july that i know of. and scott is NOT contradicting the manual.

1.) connect cd player (analog out L+R) to 950 cd analog input (p.14 in the manual).

2.) select LARGE for FRONT in SPEAKER CONFIG
(IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU SET THE X-OVER TO).

3.) press MENU (item 15, p. 10)

4.) press SELECT (item 16, p. 10). the display will show MAIN MENU INPUT CONFIG.

5.) press V and it will say CD.

6.) toggle < or > until it says ANALOG.

7.) press V and it will say MODE.

8.) toggle < or > until it says STEREO.

9.) press MENU twice. it will say CD STEREO ANALOG and show the volume.

10.) press BYPASS (item 20, p. 10).

now play to your heart's content in "pure two-channel stereo". NO subwoofer. mains only, full range. NO double bass. TRUST ME.

now, the cool thing (to me) is, if you set the front skrs. to SMALL in step 2 above, then set the x-over (outboard, before the amp, after the 950 l+r pre outs) to whatever your preference may be and adjust your sub ( x-over, phase, para eq, time alignment, gain) to blend with your mains, you have "pure two-channel stereo" with ELF (not LFE), which is something eveyone should do at least once.

the point is...the 950 as configured above DOES NOT HAVE DOUBLE BASS. to the contrary, it offers the ultimate in bypass options in 2-channel stereo.

NOTE: KCB...i used YES' "TALK" cd. i love the note at the end of the sleeve notes which reads, " P.S. "CAUTION" EXTREME DIGITAL DYNAMIC RANGE D.D.D. FORMAT". i played cut #4 in the set up listed above as scenario 2 (with the sub) and just as the house began to disassemble, my 2 sons (16 and 23 and both musicians) ran into the room and sat at each side of me. 3/4 of the way through the song i pressed stop, into which sudden silence my eldest said, in an awestruck sort of soft voice, "good lord".

more on how completely ecstatic i am over this 950 prepro elsewhere, soon.

So it sounds like page 6 of the manual should really say "...the subwoofer DSP crossover remains active when the main speakers are set to SMALL...

"mains set to large, analog source, stereo bypass = "pure two-channel stereo"....no double bass....no subwoofer...this is exactly what my 950 does".

So have both (my May original and my reddot) of mine. I get zero/nothing out of my sub in above config, it works like it supposed to.

Merc - are you saying in this config on your original you got a "subdued" sound from your sub? Interesting, I've never experienced this.

"Now Scott says that double bass is not a problem in stereo mode. The manual seems to contradict him". Not,, as long as mains are set to large, no 2bass from sub.

ellen.....yes, you are correct, on page 6...it should read as you say. thanx for pointing it out to me.

bossoboss,

Simply stated, the double-bass shouldn't be there in the first place.

As a user I "SHOULD NOT" have to go deep into the menu structure of the prepro to change the speaker configuration from Small to Large "EVERY TIME" I want to change from 5.1 to stereo bypass or back to 5.1 to listen to movies or music the way I want.



[This message has been edited by bstan (edited September 15, 2002).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bstan:
As a user I "SHOULD NOT" have to go deep into the menu structure of the prepro to change the speaker configuration from Small to Large "EVERY TIME" I want to change from 5.1 to stereo bypass or back to 5.1 to listen to movies or music the way I want.
______________________________________

bstan: i agree....i think you should just tell the prepro to reconfigure and it does so automatically.

my point is simply that the problem was presented to me as double bass in stereo bypass. it isn't true.

as to how "deep" you have to go into the menu, though your point is well taken, i find that i actually like to have to think about what input configuration, speaker configuration and mode i want to choose just before playing a given format. every cd is not mixed the same. some cd's i play on the dvd player to use the digital processing options, some i play on the cd player in bypass mode sometimes setting the speakers to large and sometimes setting the speakers to small engaging external high-pass crossovers to eliminate the double bass and use the sub. i like the control options.

i guess that's why there are so many different prepros and receivers available for purchase. buy the way, if you don't mind me asking, which prepro do you have that doesn't require reconfiguration from movies to pure 2 ch. stereo?

I don't have the 950 yet but being a big Yes fan in all the band's permutations, I can vouch for the fact the Bossobass's choice of demo material (Yes: Talk) definitely has signal to keep a subwoofer or full range speaker very busy in the low bass range.

bossoboss,

I don't use a prepro when listening to music, it's turned off and so is the DVD player.

I have a separate 2-channel pre-amp and a marchand XM9-L electronic crossover (plus a parametric EQ on the sub) that I use to integrate an M&K subwoofer with the amps driving my main L&R Dynaudio Contour speakers.

The prepro L&R analog outs (Speaker=Large, Sub=NO) feed into the 2-channel preamp for DD5.1 and DTS movie watching, while the center and surrounds go directly to the amps.

My room's bass output is optimized for my speaker/room setup (with MLS-based acoustic measurement software) and doesn't need to be adjusted (changed) between CD music and DVD movies



The point is for a large % of owners it really is true because they don't have speakers that can be set as Large like you for stereo bypass.

[This message has been edited by bstan (edited September 16, 2002).]

"As a user I "SHOULD NOT" have to go deep into the menu structure of the prepro"

How do you define deep here. Press menu once, enter, speaker calb. Thats 3 thumb presses for me, hardly "goin deep - like the Raidahs did to the Steelers last night":>

bstan: your 2-channel setup sounds like a killer!

now, did i miss something or are you not getting lfe into your sub during dd and dts playback?

davis s: though i have been in NC for 13 years now, i was born and raised in pittsburgh and lived there for 35 years. raiders/steelers...great memories.

I guess you did, because I get lfe in the main L&R analog outs from the prepro when sub=NO.