OK I know this has been discussed and dicussed, but since I've now had both the 950 AND the 1066 in my home, and since my conclusions surprised even me - I thought it was worth reporting on.

I've had the 950 in my setup the longest, and anyone who follows this forum much will know that I've been a big fan of the 950 in digital (DD, DTS, etc) but found the 2 channel performance to be lacking to my taste. Basically I find it thin, unenvolving and just a bit shrill.

So, being a long time Rotel fan, enjoying a warmer presentation, reading good things, etc., I decided to pick up the silver faceplat 1066 for $1300 and a 30 day money back guarantee.

First up, I put it through the paces with 2 channel music. The sound was somewhat warmer than the 950 but quite veiled and lacked the richness I was hoping for. Bottom line if I had to live with 950 or the Rotel for 2 channel, I would easily choose the Rotel - but the improvement wasn't as dramatic as I'd expected or maybe hoped for.

Second up was "listening" to movies. This is where I found the warmth, slight veiling and lost details of the Rotel to hurt its performance vis a vis the 950. This really surprised me, since even the most fanatical of Outlaw fans have reported that there was little to no difference between them for HT. I disagree and found the 950 to close to high end in performance with the Rotel solidly mid-fi (getting on flame suit).

Bottom line, I found the Rotel to be an acceptable performer in both music and HT, although neither offered thrilling performance. And I found the 950 excellent at HT and unaceptable (for my taste) in 2 channel.

And one thing about usability - personally I hate using OSD, and found the fact that you don't need it when using the 950 to be a big plus for me.

Soooo - despite all my expectations (and public musings) I will be returning the Rotel. I figured that if I could find a used 2 channel pre with HT passthrough for around $600, I would have a system that significantly bested the Rotel in both Home Theater and music for another couple hundred bucks. Plus if I wanted to have seperate rooms later for HT and music, the sytem could be more easily split up.

In some ways I hate to write this since I've always been a big fan of the way Rotel does business, value delivered, etc and been suspicious of what I see as possible manipulation of online bulletin boards by Outlaw fans or maybe the Outlaws themselves. But the proof is in the keeping, and the Rotel's goin back. OK everyone, you may now load your flamethrowers.

I think you gave a very honest review of what you heard. And you will get no flames from me. I also believe the 950 to have a high end performance for home theater. But lacking in 2 channel music. You hit it on the head when you said, I find it thin and just a bit shrill. Still it is a very good offering at 899...who has one for a better price. And a keeper for my theater also..

HT crazed:

As a new Rotel owner you won't see any flames from me. Well, except for the fact that you had the chance to actually audition them both, grrrr.

Thanks for the review and I believe you were being objective. Once again, 950 wait-listers, hang in there!

On Rotel's side and since I can't compare the two, all I can say is this. I'm using my brother-in-law's hand me down Klipsch Synergy speakers and Rotel amp with the 1066. He upgraded to Paradigm Ref speakers, SVS Ultra sub and a Lexicon MC-1. Besides the depth in base of his SVS and my Klipsch 15, I can hear no difference (no we haven't done a side by side comparison, I'm sure his would win). He said himself after listening to my system that he wondered if it was was worth it to upgrade. Then again, our room sizes are drastically different.

Room size, difference in ear between people, equipment, everyone will have different opinions. I still wish I could have heard the 950 before I made my choice but I'm quite happy.

Rob

HT Crazed,

Would you mind giving us a list of the associated gear you used for your comparison? Nice review, it certainly has helped in my decision to wait for the 950 or buy the Rotel.

-bill

I've also experienced some of the thinness in two-channel on the 950 (and this includes vinyl in which I proudly use a Rotel MM/MC phono stage.)

However, I recently experimented with an AC power filter (nothing fancy. Just a Tripp Lite Isobar) and discovered that I could tame that edginess without compromising the detail or the wide/deep soundstage.

In principal, I haven't believed in AC power filtering; but my ears tell me a MUCH different story.

For those who are less than thrilled with the 950's music performance, I'd recomend experimenting with power filtering. And don't just plug it in and forget it. Try combinations of the 950 and your amp in isolated outlets and filtered outlets (the options available to me on my Tripp Lite) and directly into the wall. I heard a definite difference in each combination.

HT crazed,

Care to comment on any comparison of the Outlaw (or Rotel) with your brothers Lexicon MC1? Specifically, HT performance would be appreciated as I am looking only for a HT pre/pro.

Brian

Oh my gawd! Who would have thought that Larry and I, in the end, would agree almost totally. I still prefer the 950 to the Rotel for music(I prefer dry/detailed versus warm/veiled)but like you I want more. This weekend I am checking out the Musical Fidelity A3cr and an Audible Illusions refurbed 3A preamp. I have also tried an ASL tubed unit(no much like) and an Adcom 750(passive mode very nice). From reviews that I've read, my guess is that you'd like the Musical Fidelity very much. However, even used units cost more than $600. One other idea for you is to buy a Sony P9K preamp for use with your 2 channel sources. As long as you only have 2 sources, it would work very nicely. Tonally, it is slightly warmer than the 950, but still extremely neutral.
IMO, I'd put the performance of the 950/P9K/ICBM trio,(950 for movies, P9K for music)up against the Anthem AVM-20 any day. Cost wise it is no comparison as the trio only costs $1500 or so.

Good Luck with your search and let us know what you end up getting.
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Take Care,
merc

[This message has been edited by merc (edited July 16, 2002).]

If you are hearing shrillness in stereo but not in movies, it is most likely in the source. It is not fair or reasonable to judge the "sound" of a component on the reproducing end without knowing all the details of the recording session. All microphones have different colorations and the producer will color the original according to individual taste. So use your head and use your tone controls!

And why would anyone with a 950 listen in 2-channel? If you really want to be retro, you might as well listen in mono! The huge improvement in going from mono to stereo is dwarfed by the vast improvement in going to surround sound, even if you're just extracting ambiance with DPL2.

Many people including me, sometimes like to listen to CD's, which are recorded in stereo, in stereo, without extracting ambiance.

While I do enjoy the 950's DPL2 (and even more, NEO6), I and others as well, often like to listen in old fashioned stereo.

Just call me old fashioned.

I mostly prefer to listen in as many channels as are on the recording; that means 5.1 for DD and DTS (I don't have a rear speaker) and 2 for CDs. Although for some I find that DPL-II adds to the enjoyment. I don't think anyone would want to downmix a 2 channel CD into mono.

For TV watching, my theory is that a lot of stuff is really four-channel or five-channel stuff downmixed into stereo for broadcast. DPL-II does a pretty good job of retrieving the original, though of course I'd prefer a 5.1 feed if I could get it. Some stuff, like newscasts, probably would sound better with it off, but I'm lazy and generally don't.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net