surroundphile,

My guess is you never did get correct speaker/room integration to optimize the soundfield from a 2-channel source.

Sorry, but most surround music is artificialy created and sounds artificial in it's playback venue.

If you like it fine, that's your opinion, but for most of us, neophytes pay attention here, it's just a bunch of hype.

[This message has been edited by bstan (edited August 28, 2002).]

What does that mean,"most of us"? I think that is an incorrect assumption. Sorry, but a lot of experienced enthusiasts like multi-channel music. Including myself. I like hearing opinions from all sides but statements like that make me wonder. I am sure you have good reasons for not liking it but I have to wonder why make it sound like only "neophytes" like multi-channel music?

[This message has been edited by karlengle (edited August 28, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by karlengle (edited August 28, 2002).]

a stereo soundstage isn't artificial??!!

the exciting thing about 5.1 isn't as much the soundstage as it is the available headroom.

stereo provides only 2 channels into which to mixdown 24, 32, and more tracks of music.
saturation of the 2 channels is the most frustrating limitation of the stereo format.

5.1 allows for the low frequencies (the largest cause of saturation) to be mixed into it's own discrete channel, allowing the remaining tracks to be mixed into the remaining 5 discrete channels.

this is the most exciting advance in recorded music's history, to me, and i am sure there will be many new discs that will be taking advantage of this format.

unless, of course, your music collection will forever consist of only live recordings of acoustic sets, in which case....sheeesh.

what the hell is a neophyte?

So on the Rotel does the on screen display come on everytime you do something on the remote? But on the 950 it doesn't?

I think I saw one under a microscope once....

"headroom" and "saturation of the 2 channels is the most frustrating limitation of the stereo format".

??

You're gonna have to explain that to me. I've heard a lot of things about 2 channel stereo sound, but that's a new one!

How about that writer.. ah.. J. Gordon Holt. Is he a neophyte? I believe he's a big proponent of mult-channel music.
This neophyte eeenjoys both 2 channel and multi-channel music. And I really like my movies in multi-channel format. Now if only we could get the studios to provide the background (movie) music in 2 channel to satisfy those who don't care for the artificial sound.D)

cd:
2 channels 16 bit 44.1khz
dynamic range (headroom) 96db

dvd-audio:
6 channels (5.1) 24 bit 96khz
dynamic range 144db

dvd sampling rate = 4.3 times higher than cd
dvd quantization resolution = 256 times finer
than cd

sorry, i used the term "saturation" loosely, from my experience as a session bassist.
32 tracks (2" analog tape) has to be mixed down to 2 channels for stereo, then converted to digital at the above rates for the cd format.
saturation occurs when the available headroom is exceeded. with analog tape there is some forgiveness in the sound if you reach saturation for short bursts. in the digital domain there is no such forgiveness. exceeding headroom limits is a no-no.

all i am saying is, having 5 discrete channels (instead of 2) with 144db of headroom PLUS a discrete .1 channel for lfe changes everything....artificial or not.

most current dvd-a/sacd software is re-mixed from analog masters and live recordings of symphonies, etc., but that will change soon.

i'm looking forward to being able to play back 5.1 recordings done completely in the digital domain that take advantage of the endless possibilities that stereo does not offer.

BoB- You're missing something.

The difference in "headroom" between CD and DVD-A/SACD has absolutely nothing to do with 2 channel stereo vs multi-channel. Simply due to the FORMAT. You can have 2 channel SACD. You can have 2 channel DVD-A.

Me? If a recording was originally mixed in 2 channel stereo, then that's what I want. Whether it's an lp, CD, SACD, DVD-A, Elcassette, or 8-track tape. Don't mind if there's a mutli-channel version along with it, but I want the original number-of-channels format.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kevin C Brown:
[B]BoB- You're missing something
_____________________________________________

ahhhhhhhhh...i see said the blind man.
you are saying you object to dplII, neo 6, circle surround, logic 7, etc.?

i completely agree with you there, KCB.