I am sick and tired of not being able to respond to some other questions, complaints and simply nasty anti-outlaw posts on other forums.... so I'll copy them here and get my ya-yas out!



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Take Care,
merc

From HTF:

To keep things straight, be advised that the unit you will receive is rebuilt to the latest factory specifications and carefully inspected to assure that it is in "like new" condition, but it will probably not be a brand new unit"

So after all our patience with Outlaw and the 950 we end up with a "refurb".

From another forum Tom H asks:

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It was responded to by Bob L. of LA who said:
So... how many of you early guys agree with Bob and will keep your initial units? In fact... does Bob actually agree to keep his unit in spite of his voiced perfectness??? Anyway, I want a new refurbed one. How bout y'all?
How bout Bob?
I wonder if he'll let us know???

[This message has been edited by merc (edited August 30, 2002).]

I'm not sending mine back for no refurb. I like mine just fine the way it is.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

The way I see it, my unit is already used, as long as the replacement unit is in similar or better condition but has a superior noise floor, I'm satisfied. I can understand the desire to get a brand new unit, but for me, I see no practical advantage to getting a new unit over a refurb.

[This message has been edited by Dzung Pham (edited August 30, 2002).]

I'm with you Dzung. As long as it looks perfect cosmetically, I'm happy with a rebuilt unit.

------------------
Take Care,
merc

I will be sending mine back. I only have real hiss on analog and it is not audible from listening positions but I still want the new unit simply for the peace of mind of knowing mine is normal. I wish they were new, if not, non used refurbs, but in any case I am with Dzung and Merc on this one and will be satisfied with an updated 950.

I take it back. I have nothing to say.

[This message has been edited by bobliinds (edited August 31, 2002).]

"The ideal for me would be the option to hear both in my home, which apparently isn't in the cards for Outlaw".

But Bob you can. Oh wait its a unit that they fixed that "may" have been returned, or maybe was never on the street, but you can hear a second unit in your home, while still having the first in your home.

Awhile back I thought I would have had a problem with this, but not anymore. I really do not get why anyone would have a problem with this. Its a freeking $899.00 product, not a $40,000 car, or something else very costly. Christ, when Dell sold me my computer with a wonderful "3 year" warranty, they never mentioned "refurbished" parts would be in the cards for future repairs.

Bottom line, there is no/zero risk here. You get a "fixed" unit, inspect it, plug it in and listen/evaluate it for a couple of weeks and make a decision. If you want it, keep it. If you like your original, send it back. The backlash from all of this is absolutely amazing.

I realize that Outlaw is saying that if your unit is good, it's good. As much as I like the 950 and Outlaw, after all this company and I (and my fellow Outlaw owners and wait-listers) have been
through ... well ... I guess I just don't believe them. I believe in their earnest committment to doing the right thing; but I have to admit I've lost faith in the credibility of their public utterances.

What a load of hooey. I say you'll never be satisfied (either worried something might go wrong, or your precious "resale" value may be harmed if you keep the first one) with this product. You should return it and buy the Rotel or something else!

[This message has been edited by JGB (edited September 03, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by JGB (edited September 03, 2002).]

Bob, If you unit hisses at all then you have a unit that will be replaced at your decision. You really don't have to lie at all in order to get one of the fixed units. The other major advantage of the new hiss-fixed units is that the warranty clock gets reset to when you receive the new unit.

Thanks for reading what I actually wrote, Merc. You were very helpful. I guess I'm going for the mod.

[This message has been edited by bobliinds (edited August 31, 2002).]

I'll probably keep mine too (but not totally decided). As for resale value, I'd rather give a buyer the serial number if asked than have to tell them it's a "refurb". The average joe on E-bay probably will not be scholar on 950 history - but eveyone understands that refurbs deserve an extra discount.

The up-side? That's confusing. You would think if the noise floor improvement was as significant as people were reporting, that the new unit would sound clearly better than the old one. Though the reports also say that the sound difference is virtually nil.

My original reason for trading in was to see if the general harshness in 2 channel was improved upon. I hear that its not. So in that case, given my unit has hiss that's inaudible at normal distances, why trade in?

Market value? I'd rather sell a used unit that a used referb unit. Peace of mind? Heck the warranty's for 5 years anyway and at least I know mine came new from the factory without being opened and worked on manually by techs in the mean time.

Unless you have one of the "high hiss" models, I don't see any advantage in trading in for the refurb. But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise if there's something I haven't considered.


[This message has been edited by HT crazed (edited August 31, 2002).]

Guys,

i believe you are all forgetting something....

Remember when the 950's had the dropout issue? The Outlaws had to fix all these units that went out to us in the first batch so what i'm saying is that our units are most likely "factory modified" as well.

I don't think anyone so far (except for people in the second batch)has received a completly new, unmodified 950.

With a 5 year transferable warranty and so long as the 950 looks and function as new then i don't see what all the fuss is about.

AKA JGB (at work):

Bob - an apology to you as I agree my tone was not necessary (Friday/work/LA Holiday traffic just to get home/busy day). I will be deleting my ealier post to.

Also, I do remember your old posta at HTF re: how you were enjoying your unit. Like you, I really enjoy mine, and on occasion get testy when I read, what seem to me, topics that just don't fly.

As I cant acccess the HTF at work (filter sees it as art/culture and blocks out), I did not see any of your lastest posts over there.

I still think the "resale" concern on an $899 product is a non-issue, but if its important to you, who am I to take issuse with it. I'm a pack wrat, and hang onto everthing, including, my electronics. If I can ever afford a $5K+ investment in something, I'm sure I'd thik differently.

Most importantly, I apologize for my "go buy the Rotel comment", as 1) it was out of line, and 2) I for one hope a lot of people stick with their 950.

Only I'm not sure how to edit/delete my other comments.

You can't make it disappear entirely, but you can pick the button on the line at the top of the post (the line with the date on it) and change the contents of the post.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

JGB:

Thank you most sincerely for the apology. It was gracious and I appreciate it greatly. Let's shake hands and do some mutual deleting.

I just started an Outlaw Moment thread in the Demo section that I think might be a way for some of us to share the enjoyment we're getting from our Outlaw equipment.

Your stressor was LA traffic, mine is a seven-day virus that will NOT go away. I am literally full of ... uh ... too much information. Sorry.

The scene: A bridge over a gorge with mist rising up from below.
[gurgle]
GALAHAD:
There it is!
ARTHUR:
The Bridge of Definitive Music!

ROBIN: Oh, great. ARTHUR: Look! There's the old man from scene twenty-four. BEDEVERE: What is he doing here? ARTHUR: He is the keeper of the Bridge of Definitive Music. He asks each traveler five questions-- GALAHAD: Three questions. ARTHUR: Three questions. He who answers the five questions-- GALAHAD: Three questions. ARTHUR: Three questions may cross in safety.
ROBIN: What if you get a question wrong? ARTHUR: Then you are cast into the Gorge of Eternal Test Tones. ROBIN: Oh, I won't go. GALAHAD: Who's going to answer the questions? ARTHUR: Sir Robin! ROBIN: Yes? ARTHUR: Brave Sir Robin, you go. ROBIN: Hey! I've got a great idea. Why doesn't Lancelot go? LANCELOT: Yes. Let me go, my liege. I will take him single-handed. I shall make a feint to CES that s-- ARTHUR: No, no. No. Hang on! Hang on! Hang on! Just answer the five questions-- GALAHAD: Three questions. ARTHUR: Three questions as best you can, and we shall watch... and pray. LANCELOT: I understand, my liege. ARTHUR: Good luck, brave Sir Lancelot. God be with you.

BRIDGEKEEPER:
Stop! Who would cross the Bridge of Definitive Music must answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see.
LANCELOT:
Ask me the questions, Bridge Keeper. I am not afraid.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
What... is your name?
LANCELOT:
My name is 'Sir Lancelot of Camelot'.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
What... is your quest?
LANCELOT:
To seek Sonic Perfection.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
What... is your favorite movie?
LANCELOT:
LOTR.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
Right. Off you go.
LANCELOT:
Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.
ROBIN:
That's easy!

BRIDGEKEEPER:
Stop!
ROBIN:
Ask me the questions, Bridge Keeper. I am not afraid.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
What... is your name?
ROBIN:
'Sir Robin of Camelot'.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
What... is your quest?
ROBIN:
To seek Sonic Perfection.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
What... is your favorite surround format?
[pause]
ROBIN:
Uh, Dolby EX wait no well sometimes DTS-ESuuuuuuugh!

BRIDGEKEEPER:
Stop! What... is your name?
GALAHAD:
'Sir Galahad of Camelot'.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
What... is your quest?
GALAHAD:
I seek Sonic Perfection.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
What have you decided to buy today. Rotel or Outlaw?
GALAHAD:
Outlaw No, Rote-- eeeeeeeeel!

BRIDGEKEEPER:
Hee hee heh. Stop! What... is your name?
ARTHUR:
It is 'Arthur', King of the Britons.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
What... is your quest?
ARTHUR:
To seek Sonic Perfection.
BRIDGEKEEPER:
Does your 950 hiss or not hiss?
ARTHUR:
What do you mean? Did I never hear it? If I didn’t hear it and now I might hear it? If I might hear it in the foreseeable future?
BRIDGEKEEPER:
Huh? I-- I don't know that. Auuuuuuuugh!

BEDEVERE:
How do know so much about pre-pros?
ARTHUR:
Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
[suspenseful music]

Lena:

Excellent. That's all. Just ... excellent.

Now that's some funny stuff. Great post, Smart Little Lena.

So, who will be first to try to determine if their 950 has the hiss or not by checking to see if it weighs the same as a duck?...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I see quite a few folks coming to the Outlaws defense over at HTF. Glad to see some good posts in response to the goofy complaints by those who like to bash Outlaw any time they get a chance. Like comparing the 950 hiss fix to supplying re-built engines in a new car- huh?? I checked my unit again today for audible hiss. Absolutely no hiss with a digital connection- it's dead silent. In analog bypass/6 channel bypass (which I use with my SACD player) I can hear noise at a -10 volume setting on my set-up at 1-2 feet. At +10 I can hear hiss at 12-13'. However, at -10 volume level,it will drive you from the room. Again, this is with analog sources only. I've decided to keep mine. I don't hear any noise (hiss), even at loud listening levels, when listening to music or other analog sources. I like the way my unit sounds and performs. So- I'm keeping it. Could it be better- maybe- but I don't use this thing at those volume levels, so I guess I just don't think it's worth switching it out. But, if you are not happy, it looks like the Outlaws will get you another unit to try. It doesn't get a whole lot better than that- does it?

This is a solemn pageant (nobody laugh)
KNEEL STEVES
(where’s my sword)
I DUB thee…

Knights Who No Longer Say NI

I'm not laughing- but I am grinning!

I can see that they still have good agriculture down thar' in Texas! Miss Lena have you followed the cows into the locoweed again?
Mix

i just realized the obvious. i have 6 denon 250 watt monoblocks, custom built 3-ways all around with dynaudio drivers, a custom built, 10 cu. ft double chamber reflex cab with a brutally powerful 18" driver and a sony ns900v dvd/sacd player, and for 6 months i have been listening to soundtracks thru my rptv and have not played any cd's or sacd's. [wow]

i'm truly at the edge of sanity. or maybe i've been insane for a while now, and simply do not realize it.

the good that comes out of this, for me, is that i will never take clean, powerful music for granted again....ever.

sorry for the ramble...i just had to get that out.

as i said in my post at htf, outlaw is a great idea and a welcome alternative, to me, as a place to buy a/v gear. i applaud them, i support their efforts against all odds and i anticipate the new products on the horizon. the above statements are a testimony to that.

ok....so like, when the holy heck is my 950 gettin' here??? send me a "refurb" if one of the whiners don't want it. maybe i qualify for a hardship shipment.....ya think?

Bossobass:

While you're waiting for the 950 to arrive, you might invest in a package of adult diapers. You're probably going to need them when you get that system finally fired up.

And maybe a plastic cover for the couch.

You're in for a treat, my friend.

Well, it *is* a five-year warranty, after all. I'll most likely move before then, and if my new surroundings cause my 950 to start hissing uncontrollably (it doesn't now), I can always request a replacement at that point. I think I'm pretty much covered in any case. I only plan to ask for a replacement if it becomes necessary.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Well Bob- after 2 attempts to edit my nasties, I can't seem to get make changes. Again, apologies, and hope your feeling better.

Forget it, JGB, I have. Still, I appreciate your follow-up. And, yes, my internal organs and I have once again made peace with one another.

"I can't seem to get make changes".

I also can't write!