That's not even close to being true. Yamaha does their own DSP. Denon and Sony and others use AD SHARCs. Rotel and Outlaw and others use Cirrus. B&K and Anthem and others use Motorola.

And then there's software, DACs and ADCs, power supplies, board design, etc, etc.

You might argue that the end effect is the same, and I would mostly agree with you there , but there are many different chip sets out there.

I have seen that the Ref 40 might list as low as $2800. That would put it in the low $2k's for the street price. I'd consider it at that point, especially if it has a true 2 channel bypass mode, and a true 5.1 analog passthrough. (No "double bass".) The Ref 30 is rated very highly on www.audioreview.com compared to other pre/pros.

A number cruncher is basically a number cuncher, whether Sony, Denon, Yamaha, Intel, or anyone else. The only real variable is the skill of the person writing the software, and that is not exclusive to the expensive brands. A good power supply can be designed by any compentent person, whether from an ultra expensive company or not. Sorry... feeling kinda surly from waiting for my 950....

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited August 28, 2002).]

Well... I've seen the Outlaw 950 sold as low as $750. I have not seen the BW 40 advertised officially for less than anything...? Still, even with the so called double bass, I prefer the Outlaw 950 to the BK 30. It is cleaner and less veiled and that makes all the difference in the hearing world. Oksy?

I kind of liken the whole "justify the price thing" to the car industry. You can drive a Geo Metro (no offense owners) or you can drive a Mercedes (no offense owners). Both will "get you there". They both have engines and tires and some of the same options: air, radio, wiper delay, etc.. but one will get you there in more style: dual climate control, wipers on the headlights, etc... it's all relevant to the cost (in most cases). If you can't afford a Mercedes then the Metro will still get you there, just not in the same style and comfort etc..., but should you hate Mercedes owners or call them foolish or think that Mecerdes' should cost the same as the Metro? No. If I had Mercedes money then I would go buy a Lexicon or a Nagra or Sim Audio, but since I don't, I won't hold it against them or tell Mercedes to lower there prices cause it's not fair.

[This message has been edited by Maximum7 (edited August 28, 2002).]

I don't agree completely. Rolex vs. TImex isn't at all about feature sets, its' about much more intangible things. The Sunfire or B&K have some intangibles, but they also sport tangible real advantages. IMO you're only half right, or is it half wrong?



Charlie

I guess it comes down to who you're trying to impress - yourself or someone else....

Intangible means INtangible - NON-physical. So for material goods anything 'intangible' would have to relate to NON-PERFORMANCE issues - and without doubt get into the field of status, exclusivity, 'snobbery' - etc.

And that is indeed the whole point of searching for equipment which has INTRINSIC value and has not had its price goosed up for intangible characteristics!

[This message has been edited by Jason Kent (edited August 28, 2002).]

Exactly. So things like 9.1 capability, field upgradeable firmware, more inputs, more outputs, balanced outputs, etc. would seem to be pretty darn tangible advantages.

The Rolex wouldn't do anything a Casio couldn't, and in reality the Casio would almost certainly keep better time.

I'm a Timex person myself...

The analogy between cars and computing devices (really what a pre/pro is) is really apples and oranges! Cars are a relatively mature technology that's not going to fundamentally change in the forseeable future (at least gasolene powered ones). Computing is it's VERY infancy. Cars of 20 years ago were basically like the ones now (I might say better), but computers of today (and home theatre electronics) are going to look as silly and quiant 20 years from now as a Commodore or Apple II does now. Cars (and motorcycles for me) are bought for their styling as much as for their performance (Harleys MORE for style than performance - excepting the V-Rod, but don't get me started!) Both tangible and IN-tangible reasons come into play. Home theatre electronics are bought (or should be bought for) their performance and "bang for buck" _especially_ considering the changing nature of the state of the art. True, I paid a fortune for one of the early Macintoshes, but at the time there were no other machines that did what I needed to do at any price. Now, there are plenty of choices. Same in the case of the 950; Outlaw is forcing the price point down (probably more aggressively than they would like, considering all the pain!), and soon there will be PLENTY of choices in the under 1K price point. Paying more at this point as far as I'm concerned, is folly, and the'yre are plenty of snake oil types that will gladly take your $3,000 for a $1,000 box.

Timex rules......

I'd agree if the less expensive item provides identical or better functionality, functionality being defined by perfomance of primary function. For instance, your Timex is a watch, whose primary function is not to impress women in bars or business associates or whatever, but to keep accurate time. In performing the primary function of a watch it clearly outperforms a Rolex for much less money.

In the case of a pre/pro the primary function is signal management, including switching and processing. In this case the Sunfire TG3 (for example) has clear benefits over the Outlaw 950 (again, for example) in the performance of their primary function. Whether the difference in performance is worth the difference in cost is a matter each buyer must evaluate for him or herself.

Thus I find the Timex/Rolex comparision not really representative of the issue. All IMO and YMMV of course.