"Whatever. I can only speak for myself and I resent the fact that when I tell what I believe is the truth that it's automatically assumed that something less than honest is going on."

RAF, I wasn't speaking of anyone in particular as Outlaw cheerleaders, only those that unfailing only present the positives without the negatives (perfection which no product or anything else in the real world can claim). And also those that refer to anyone who does try to fully scrutinize the product as "Outlaw Bashers".

As if any possibly downside discussion about the company or the product is somehow malicious. News Flash: Guys, its just part of the information gathering, decision making process. In short, its how most people shop for any product. And to be called a company "basher" just because you want to know ALL the facts is the epitomy of boorish sales pressure IMO.

Has anyone been doing this w/ their remote?....

Since the 950 pauses for a while to reaquire the audio signal (sadly, a little longer than my cheap Denon Rec. takes, but not too bad)...

I cup my hand over the IR end of the remote so I can switch between diff. components I want to control without the 950 switching it's inputs.

Or for my wife who just wants to use the remote to control the TV in the morning... If she doesn't cup her hand over the remote when she hits the tv button, the 950 turns on when she doesn't want anything but the TV running. She pretty 'remote-impared' so she doesn't dig this much.

Pretty annoying 'cuz I didn't have to do that w/ my old rec. (which also has an lcd screen so you know what the remote is currently controlling) , but it's not too big a deal and seems to work better as it becomes more of a habit to do.

I don't like the small volume control buttons, or that nearly all the buttons are tiny rectangles or identical circles, and that the Power button is right above the frequently used Mute -haven't turned anything off accidentally yet, but it'll happen some time I'm sure.

Oh yeah, and I touched the buttons on the face of the 950 today -for the first time. Just didn't even think of it before I guess?

I have to say these buttons -like others have said before- stick out A LOT. Wow! And they're VERY flimsy IMO! I'm afraid to touch them again! I'll seriously avoid it -they're that cheap feeling.

My low end Denon has nice tight solid metal buttons and volume dial like all Denon's do.

RAF, you have a high end Denon, and I didn't remember you ever mentioning that the 950's face is far more flimsy than your Denon? Was that irellevant to you, or do you think I'm wrong about the comparsion?
To me that seems like one of the little things you guys could've mentioned in between the praise of the 950's sound -if you were wondering why some people took some of the beta reviews with a grain of salt.

Not thrilled with Outlaw's own cables just barely fitting into the preouts either. The 950's preout spacing seems to be the typical spacing, BUT since their cables are not typical thickness they should've went with wider spacing IMO. Probably a more costly option 'cuz it's not 'standard'.

Someone mentioned that they liked how the connections are all gold plated... The $200 POS Aiwa rec. that I had for ~a week before I dumped it onto someone else had gold connections. It's very typical, and the plating on mine looked slightly cracked on several inputs. I'm sure it's fine though, just not any sign of better than typical quality.

Awesome cables by the way. Much better than typical in their price range.

Better the 950's spacing be changed than the cables be made thinner -though I'm sure neither will be altered.

I guess most of the money's on the inside. Which is pretty much what I'd prefer from a value targeted item like this, so I'm very happy overall so far.

"Tremendously good stereo and HT sound".

I think you'd have to get into outboard DACs or very high end pre/pros to gain a significant improvement. There's better, but in most cases it'll cost you big!

And by that I mean NOT determined through blind or double blind testing.

If you can't easily tell the diff. in sound quality between to vastly diff. priced components, you need to just buy the cheaper one and smile..., NOT do some kind of blind test to 'gather further data'.

And if the components sound the same and are close in price (which the 950 has nothing to compare to beyond outdated/used pre/pros) then you can just decide based on features.

Now where's my universal disc player? Don't wait for digital outs. Analog isn't a crime. Put your own cables where your mouths are.
Can't they pass a mint SACD or DVDA signal to my new 950??

When they say univeral remote, they mean it. Every single pre/pro I've auditioned came with the awful remote. The Reference 30, Rotel 1066 and now the 950.

Is the seperates world so small that some manufacturer somewhere can't build a better one size fits all pre/pro remote to OEM?

Thanks, I feel better now.

My cat used to do that when I left the room. I got so DAMNED sick of watching those Animal Planet shows all the time. Blah.

By the way, glad to see I'm not the only one who isn't overjoyed with the 950 remote. I consider it a gimme, rather than a deal breaker. Blah.

Although Azryan's "expose" style makes me a little queasy, we're pretty much in agreement with the spacing of the RCA inputs and the buttons on the front of the 950. Wiggle, wiggle, little button. Blah.

On the other hand, we're also in agreement over the sound which is, after all, the center ring attraction. I continue to be impressed by the details in recordings that my old H/K pre/pro would kind of "push forward" but that the Outlaw just allows to take its own subtle place in the soundfield. Blah.

Glad to see that your Outlaw arrived before the ambulance did, Ryan. You sounded like it was getting a little intense toward the end of the waiting period. I'm more of a suffer in silence guy, myself. And then show up with an axe and SURPRISE THEM ALLLLLLL Muahhahahahahaa!!! Blah.


Bob "Too much Greg the Bunny" L.


Blah.


[This message has been edited by bobliinds (edited May 07, 2002).]

blah

[This message has been edited by bobliinds (edited May 07, 2002).]

Aight!

Blah

As I wait for my 950, could I ask all who are posting their reviews here to provide the following info?

1) Main, center and surround 950 xovers?
2) Main, center and surround speaker -3dB low freq spec?
3) CD music input; digital or analog?

Thanks,
Bruce

azryan,
Yes, the buttons on the Denon have a "less flimsy feel" than those on the 950, but I don't consider the 950 buttons as being something bad enough to even mention. There are a couple of factors in play here. For one thing, I hardly ever use the buttons on a unit once my Pronto is set up. Also, the fact that the Outlaw buttons react to a slighly lesser push might be considered a plus by some. Another thing to remember is that the majority of the buttons on the Denon 5700 are, for the most part, hidden behind that large swinging door. Not only would that protect them from prying hands but that also makes them a little harder to use/see/whatever without the use of a flashlight under certain lighting conditions.



Some people are losing sight of the purpose of the beta tests. They were done to shake down the product, not for the benefit of onlookers. At no time were the remarks made to serve as a "review" (I've stated this several times and people still choose to misconstrue this.) The fact that the beta test was done so openly on the Internet was, at least to me, very rare in the annuls of beta testing and, unfortunately, because of the way some people tried to subvert the process, probably won't be happening so openly in the future. Perhaps the Outlaws, despite whatever publicity benefits they enjoyed from all this, now realize that the open process was more trouble than it was worth. Too many people, as you did, made the beta tests into something that they definitely were not - probably a bit out of frustration because of the delays. I hope that clears this situation up.

The mode we are in now, with actual owners producing their own reviews (with professional reviews to follow) is an entirely different matter and the purpose of this thread.

Now is the time that people start to talk about whatever aspect of the 950 interests them the most - everything from the sound it produces to the adequacy or inadequacy of the remote. Reviews will continue to come in and, of course, I would assume that there would be negatives along with the positives. It would be hard to imagine any product being infallible and the 950 certainly doesn't fall into that category. There were many, many e-mails and discussions during the beta testing process that never saw the light of day and that's totally appropriate because during the beta testing process several items were changed and were not in the final product. Talking about features that had been totally changed or that were no longer in the 950 would have just become grist for the mill.

I hope you understand this and that this thread will stay on target talking about 950 features and performance. In fact, since I've been taking up bandwidth here I'm going to start a new thread to discuss the 950 beta test with anyone who cares to do that. Reviews and features here. Beta test discussions, there.

O.K.?

------------------
RAF

My HT (latest update 04/17/02) Now includes Outlaw 950 and Outlaw 755

[This message has been edited by Robert A Fowkes (edited May 07, 2002).]

It's hard to believe. After 6 months of battling it out on the online forums with both the "bashers" and the "cheerleaders", feeling my blood pressure rise while watching movie after movie in their lame pro-logic glory - I filled out a form yesterday, and the 950 was waiting for me at my office this morning. Just like that?

I feel cheated because there wasn't any kind of Halo around the box, voices from the sky as I opened it, or anything even vaguely similar to the opening scene of "The 5th Element" happening.

Just another black audio box to add to the collection? We'll see.

The (not so) funny thing is, for the first time in the 10 years I've owned them, my main speakers are in the shop waiting for parts (I can't wait to find out what two new B&W 804 Matrix tweeters will cost). DOH!

But no obstacle is too great with a new 950 in the rack. My surrounds will become my surrogate mains as I rip through my CD collection tonight.

You were expecting a review? After the long 950 saga, I felt just the existential experience of actually receiving it justified its own review. More to follow after I get my mains back.

Are you sure, HT? Mine had ALL those things. Perhaps your unit is defective.



And for a previous poster:

950 Crossovers

NHT 2.5 Mains -- 60Hz

NHT AC 1 Center -- 100Hz (Higher xover clarifies voice tracks.)

NHT 1.5 Surrounds (4) -- 80Hz or 100Hz depending on the material. Higher xover puts a little more air in the room, lower puts a little more body in the surround tracks

SVS 20-39CS subwoofer

I would agree about the remote, even though I don't use it, after having the 950 five days. And yes, I know my review sounds like a cheerleader but keep in mind it was 4 in the morning after 12 hours of listening to the 950/770. So as a follow up I will list these as the problems: The remote is really touchy and I flat out don't like it. I use a mx-500 and I also own a pronto so that is not a problem for me. I also found as well that the inputs on back were designed too small for Outlaws cables, or vice versa. They work, it just doesnt give one a lot of room to work with. The light on the 770 button never goes off which can be really confusing trying to figure out the trigger. The manual feels kinda cheap to me. It is very well written and helpful, its just feels sort of cheap, like a college term paper. I also am not a fan of the delay in between signals. My old flagship Kenwood did not do that, but is that enough to make me go back? Keep reading... The positives? Just like I put in my review, it is tight, clear and very detailed. I still can not get over some of the things I am noticing for the first time in movies, like cracking of twigs or soft effects. I actually was watching Les Miserables in concert and there is a moment during what I believe was the "Stars" track where it got silent for a second or two just for musical timing and I swear I could hear the wind blowing across the stage. How cool is that? This also was not filmed during a monsoon, it was a perfect day in England, a little above freezing So to recap, the remote, manual, input spacing, power light, have little to do with my enjoyment of the 950. If I had to use the remote, it would take away from some of my enjoyment, but not much. I would at least invest in a 40 dollar Sony (vl900)learning remote. That thing is great for the price. The time delay getting a signal could be bothersome but I will adjust. Please don't twist this into me trying to compliment the faults as mentioned above in this thread, its just the truth. When my options are the beautiful sound of the 950 or something else in that price range my decision is easy, REAL easy. I will take the time delay. It is barely there but I am trying to find audible stuff taking away from my enjoyment of the 950 and so far that is about it. If a visual helps, if Audible enjoyment is 100% the time delay would drop it to 99.83% Now, if I had to use the remote it would drop to about 97%. See, the numbers never lie.

[This message has been edited by Jed M (edited May 07, 2002).]