If the center surround speaker is turned on in the setup (as recommended by Outlaw to avoid the EX flag error) but the "6.1 Surround" mode is not turned on, then no material is sent to the (nonexistent) center surround speaker and no material is taken away from the (hopefully very much existent) surround speakers. If you had the CS speaker on but had not turned 6.1 on, you would have experienced the un-altered Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack without dropouts. If 6.1 was on, then you were losing some information. The next time a Dolby 5.1 DVD is playing, turn off 6.1 (the 1050 will remain in 6.1 mode for Dolby Digital sources until switched back to 5.1) -- it will stay off, and you will be good to go. No assembly (or additional speakers) required.

Now, to find time to check out The Two Towers again myself -- it came last night, but season two of Angel also arrived, and Mrs. gonk promptly requested that the first disc find its way to the DVD player.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Gonk, what you're saying makes perfect sense, but I could've sworn I tried that, but TTT kept *forcing* my 1050 to activate 6.1 mode. I'd shut it off (via the 6.1 button on the front panel), and then 10 seconds later, it would be back on again.

But perhaps I was hallucinating; I'll try it again tonight.

You're not wrong Jabez. TTT does indeed keep forcing the 1050 into 6.1 mode if you have the 6th speaker switched to ON. Without the speaker switched on you get the aforementioned dropouts. It is possible to switch 6.1 off but it only seems to last until there is some 6th speaker action at whihc point it mutes for a quarter of a second and switches 6.1 on. Looks like I'll need to get a 6th speaker now. Not very happy with this situation

This problem has been documented since the end of April. We were told that Outlaw was researching the problem. Isn't it about time that Outlaw announced the results of this investigation?

Allow me to pile on this bandwaggon! I too have had the aforementioned problem with LOTR TTT disk. I've turned the rear center channel "on", even though there is no speaker, and turned the 6.1 surround mode off but the unit automatically switches to and stays on the 6.1 mode after about 10 seconds of operation. Unfortunately, this substantially reduces the amount of sound coming from the two rear speakers. In other words, the rears sound great in 5.1 mode, not so good at all in 6.1. The only work around I've found is to pump up the surround trim to around +9db (normally set at around something like -1db). A major bummer indeed as I then have to reset the rear trim to listen to other programming. Fortunately, this is the only disc I have where I have encountered this problem. Not to excited about the prospect of having to buy and wire yet another speaker to solve the problem either!

Larry

I spoke to Scott from Outlaw today and I believe that I can correctly describe what is happening and the possible workarounds on this issue. I should also point out that it is my understanding from Scott, that Outlaw has no plans to address this situation.

1) The 1050 can decode all current DD 5.1EX encoded DVDs in 6.1 mode today. Therefore if you have the option of using 6 or 7 speakers you should take that option.

2) The 1050's ability to correctly playback DD 5.1EX encoded DVDs in 5.1 mode is dependent upon the specific DVD that is being played and the flags used on that DVD. For example the two H.P. DVDs are both described as being DD5.1EX. While the 1050 plays back the the Sourcer's Stone correctly in 5.1 mode (at least on my 1050), it does not play back the 2nd correctly in 5.1 mode. Based upon the reports above, LOTR part 1 and 2 are probably similar. The 1050 seems to have problems decoding at least some other DD 5.1EX DVDs as well.

If you cannot use 6 or 7 speakers as described above for a problem DVD, there are some options (described as a - d below). However, I doubt that they will please everyone.

a) If the DVD includes a DTS audio track, play in back in that mode. This option needs to be selected manually. While I haven't tested it, Scott indicates this will work. Obviously this doesn't work for LOTR TTT or HP COS as they don't have DTS audio tracks.

b) For some and only some DVDs, the 1050 decoding logic can be fooled by using the speaker configuration option to add a 6th speaker (even though there really isn't one)and then still playing the DVD in 5.1 mode.

Unfortunately strategy b fails for DVDs that include flags to automatically place the 1050 in 6.1 mode. This includes H.P. COS and possibly LOTR TTT. Once the 1050 goes into 6.1 mode, it thinks it has a rear speaker. Consequently, it looks at the matrixed left and right surround signals and removes the portion that is intended for the rear surround(s) from the signals sent to the right and left rears. Furthermore, it also lowers the left and right signals by 3 db. So not only is the volume lower, but depending upon the DVD, a whole lot of surround signal may have been sent into the neverland of the non existant sixth speaker.

c) Forget DD and use Dolby Prologic (the less said about this option the better).

d) Another individual's workaround was to use a DVD player that can decode DD 5.1 signals and input these directly into the 1050. However, the DVD player I looked at for this (a Denon) cost more than the 1050, so if you are not into DVD Audio, I am not sure this makes a lot sense. Potentially, you might also lose the LFE channel.


[This message has been edited by 73Bruin (edited September 04, 2003).]

I have to add some of my own experience to the above post.

Even if you have the sixth channel enabled and present, it won't work properly with HP COS and probably any other disc with that flag problem. The 1050, no matter how it is set-up, can't decode these DVDs properly. It's a different issue than not having the sixth channel speaker present and on.

Let me say this a different way. I have a sixth channel speaker enabled on my 1050 with a speaker attached to the output. Upon playing HP COS, the 1050 kicks to 6.1 mode and I lose the majority of the information in my surrounds. This is, at least the way I'm hearing it, different than just losing the center surround information.

Now that I've said all that, I also believe that their will probably never be a fix from Outlaw for this problem. It's a decoding issue that isn't going to go away without some internal changes and I'm not expecting anything, even from Outlaw, for a receiver I bought for $500.

Thank you 73Bruin for you investigation into this issue.

Jason:

My experience with 6 active speakers and the 1050 in 6.1 mode is different from yours.

Potentially this may be due to my not tuning the relative volumes of the various speakers correctly before doing the testing. I also had the rear surround speaker located directly behind my head (slightly above ear level) when testing. Another potential cause(although Scott at Outlaw has denied this), is that there are different versions of the 1050 firmware that react differently to the DD5.1EX signal.

In any, I seem to get a significant amount of surround sound out of the 1050 while playing HP COS in 6.1 mode. One scene in particular that jumped out was when Harry and Ron were flying the car to Hogwarts and the Train came up on them. The train appeared directly behind me. I also remember one scene (also with the car) where it seemed to be flying across the rear of the room.

My frustration arises from the fact that I have been unable to find a single reference to other equipment having problems with these DVDs (other that some statements in this thread about Onkyo equipment having the problem several years ago). As an example, my cousin's 5 or more year old Yamaha receiver (which is only a 5 channel device) plays these DVDs just fine in 5.1 mode.

This brings us to the final point of your letter. You are not expecting anything from Outlaw and site the cost. However, I purchased the unit with the expectation that it could correctly playback all Dolby 5.1EX encoded disks. I would not have purchased it otherwise. This is still my expecatation given that Outlaw still advertises on its website that the 1050 is "100-percent compatible with all Dolby Surround EX 6.1-channel theatrical soundtracks". While I am willing to allow that this may require the use of 6 speakers, I don't believe the cost of the 1050 has anything to do with this reasonable expectation.

I agree 100% with 73Bruin.

The product has been and and continues to be advertised as being able to decode Dolby Ex.



It is clear that it does not do what it purports to be able to do.

I think Outlaw needs to address this issue and resolve it. Be it a firmware fix, recall, a resonable monetary compensation for those who are willing to take that kind of compensation, public apologies, or whatever else form they might think of.

I think it is a rather poor that Outlaw simply dismisses the matter with "We have no plans to address this issue". I don't even owne the 1050, but had high regards for the company.

In the end, this gives me the impression that all manufacturers are the same. Big or small, when the economics are not there, the consumers get the short end of the stick.

Regards,

[This message has been edited by BleakShore (edited October 24, 2003).]

I was a little put off a few months ago after I emailed outlaw explaining that I had read the harry potter thread and understood it and needed to know how much content was lost with the suggested fix, and if they had an idea how frequently this problem might occur as new dvds are released. I got a prompt reply explaining that all I need to do is activate the rear center, and if I have further problems don't hesitate to ask. So I wrote back explaining that I knew all that, but I needed to know how much of a compromise results from no center rear speaker on a problem disk. Never heard from them again. I think I understand the can of worms they think they must avoid opening. Personally, I realize it's only a $500 receiver and I wouldn't expect them to do much other than take it back if it happened to be during the 30-day window. But an honest answer to a technical question would have been appreciated. I also agree the absence of a revision of the 1050 billing on the website is a mistake. I guess they figure most people will just add the sixth speaker, which isn't an option for me.