For those that aren't already in the know, here is a very interesting link you might be like to see, especially those with or waiting for Model 950's!

http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/ces2002/home_theater/page_02.shtml

Wonder if they will run into similar issues with their respective units?

Thanks for the link. Interesting, huh?
Mix

It's not silver anymore... Hmm...

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Very interesting! I saw this coming for some time when the Atlantic unit appearing on the scene.So what to do? Wait for more competing units to appear! Of course, they will , most likely, be priced in that $1699 range since they have more expensive overhead than Outlaw. I, too, am on the waiting list/early FEB. But, with all these problems I am a little hesitate and leaning stongly to the Rotel 1066, although I REALLY want the Anthem or Sunfire. So, like many others I am setting tight. GREAT ARTICLE! HEADS UP!!

This article has been at that URL since CES in January.

Is there any new information on these two 950 clones, one from Atlantic Technology, and the other from Sherbourn Technologies? Last we heard, from Outlaw mind you, is the clones won't be available until Outlaw gets to the end of the 950 wait list. Also they weren't saying if there were internal differences between the 950 and the clones. There are external differences between the clones and the 950 of course. (No green button).


[This message has been edited by Will (edited July 23, 2002).]

I haven’t run into a peep on what (if any) other than outer casing changes would be made. I’m going to guess that Outlaw has to waste some paper/phone time dealing with Atlantic/Sherbourn and the several other (according to CES coverage, half a dozen) waiting in the wings badgers of this Outlaw initiated product. I have seen somewhere other than this forum that Outlaw did have an exclusive to fill certain order obligations before the unit would be released as an offering by other Companies. That subject between Easteac and all involved must be a can of worms.

For the many who will just see these items pop up full blown and mature like Venus from her Shell, they will be blithely unaware of the background saga Outlaw went through to launch their prepro.

I got hooked up with a dealer in Vegas via HTF for AT. He said their's would be out end of July. He quoted me $1250 plus shipping.



I do think that there would be a drop dead date by which even if Outlaw hadn't satisfied all of its customers on the waiting list (even the initial batch), that if AT's and Sherbourn's units were ready, that they could begin shipping anyway. Just good business sense.


[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited July 24, 2002).]

Did the Vegas dealer say July of what year?

The AT and Sherbourn clones probably won't ship until the hiss problem on the 950 is fixed.


[This message has been edited by Will (edited July 24, 2002).]

I posted this on another thread here, but here was the response to an email I sent to AT in mid-June:
( hmmmm....I wonder if any of the parts upgrades could eliminate the hiss problem?)


Thank you for your interest in the P-2000. Here a few of differences
between the Outlaw 950 and the P-2000.

Premium hand selected and calibrated components in the key processing
paths. This includes the main pre-amp, DSP, and Video boards; All caps,
DACs and Output ICs.

Higher grade Op-Amps for improved Signal to Noise Ratio in Direct, Digital,
and in the Analog-DSP inputs.

Higher video bandwidth at (55 MHz).

Higher grade premium power supply for more current stability.

Lower output impedance for increased tolerance with a wider variety of
audiophile cables.

Higher S/N ratio, greater stereo separation and lower stereo distortion in
the FM Tuner section

Lastly, the Atlantic Technology P-2000 features more ergonomically designed
buttons, and is available in a brushed aluminum titanium or black finish at
no additional charge.

Regarding the bass management, our processor works in the same manner as
the Outlaws. The bass management you are referring to is totally different
to the DSP bass from the front panel or remote control that lets you select
different low pass points for all channels.

Dan Rosenberg
Atlantic Technology

I don't know about you, but I've never been a fan of paying much of a preumium for hand-selected so-and-so's. Now, if the AT had some new features compared to the 950, in fact, if it had ANY new features compared to the 950, then that would be different. But I don't see anything new. And as far as the specs being better, sometimes this happens because the original specs were too conservative, or because after the unit ships they improve the manufacturing process.

As far as I can tell, the AT and the Outlaw 950 are the same. The big complaints about the 950 that should be relatively easy to fix, like the DPL 2 reset, the bad user interface, not memorizing settings when switching modes, time delay settings being the same on the surround channels, not being able to easily change the subwoofer volume, the very bad AM, and not being able to upgrade the software code, among other issues, are not even addressed. No doubt these are the types of things that could be addressed if in fact, someone were to put out even a slight upgrade to the 950, in my opinion. But no, it's just "premium" parts and better specs. And of course, the AT unit looks different than the 950. That's just marketing. For brand identity. There were all these published pictures of the AT and of the 950 insides on various web sites just after the January CES, and from those pictures, the outside was different, but the internals, down to the capacitors, seemed identical.

It just costs more.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited July 24, 2002).]

I don't think that AT has their own engineering team working on the P-2000 to make these changes, even if they wanted to. It looks very much like they just went design shopping.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

I just wish now that I would have taken Outlaw up on their invitation to the CES and seen these units for myself. Oh well, maybe next year.

As far as I could tell from all the pictures I saw, I would have to agree that pretty much all of these units are the same internaly. But then again I know a few people that would happily pay the extra money for the "better-looking" cases! Personally I like the Outlaw design style, except that if I were in charge I would have made the buttons and logos blue instead of green. Just me!

Jeremy, I agree with your last statement. Green is my favorite color but for some reason blue would look much better on the Outlaw. Just my opinion as well. In my setup I don't see much of my equipment so its not a big deal for me and I am not one to eliminate an option based on how it looks (at least electronics ) but neverless I agree.

I will play devil's advocate for just one minute.

V-8 Ford Mustangs *also* look very similar from the outside to the V-6's. But they are very different on the inside...

Both still get you from point A to point B, but very differently.

Yeah, but the Sherborn and AT units also look very much the same on the *inside* ... which I think the Mustang's probably do not.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Matthew- Depends on if you're looking in the trunk, or the engine compartment...

Depends if they put 60 weight oil in thru the heavy Christmas selling season, then change the model early next year.


[This message has been edited by Will (edited July 26, 2002).]

Ive never heard such crap! That AT fellow should sell cars! What was it again, " hand selected and calibrated key components or whatever". Give me a break! Its an Outlaw clone with a pretty face. They MUST charge more to cover the dealer markups. When I he ar crap like this, well, I want to_____! Wait for the Outlaw or go a higher end road. Outlaw WILL get this right and ship soon again.. I BELIEVE! Everett

I believe too!
But to just have that money sitting there........It sure gets tempting to go somewhere else. I wish those e-mail notices would start. Can I get an Amen!
Mix

Amen bro!!

Cary

Will,
On one of your earlier posts, you mentioned that the 950 doesn't memorize settings when switching modes. Does this mean that when you switch from DVD to CD and then back to DVD for example, you have to reset your settings? Even the most entry level receivers have the ability to remember the previous settings.
Thank you,

[This message has been edited by minuteman (edited July 26, 2002).]

Which settings are you asking about? Some of the 950's settings are global (I'm thinking of volume in particular, as well as some others like the speaker settings and such). If you are talking about surround mode settings, though, the 950 does remember those for each input.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Thank you Jim,
The surround modes were the ones I was worried about.

Yes it has individual surround mode settings but not individual volume or bass management settings. There is also a minor DPL 2 reset problem, where, if your player's default surround mode setting is, for example, DTS NEO, and then you play a Dolby Digital movie, the 950 switches to Dolby, as it should for the movie, but then it resets the default setting for your player to DPL 2, and you'll have to manually change the default back to DTS NEO if you want DTS NEO as your default. It's a minor thing. But it's a bug and could probably be fixed easily, if there's a 950 software upgrade in the future.


[This message has been edited by Will (edited July 26, 2002).]

Thanks Guys. That's fine for me. The minor glitch with the DPL2 could be annoying, but oh well.

Will or Gonk,
I was just thinking about this (again). You mean that when you change input modes, the 950 remembers whether it was set on all channel stereo, or DPL2 for instance, but does not remember the individual speakers level settings for that particular mode if each one happens to be set differently?
Thanks,

That's right. The speaker level settings are global as Gonk says. If you change the speaker levels while in any surround mode (like stereo or DPL2, for instance) with any input (like DVD or TV), you've automatically changed them for all surround modes.


[This message has been edited by Will (edited August 05, 2002).]

Yes, that's true. Basically, these settings (and others) are "global" and not per-input, even though they're very confusingly placed so as to appear so. It's not a bug, it's a dubious design decision.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net