Hi:

I am seeking advise on which AC line conditioner/surge protector to get for my 950/750 setup. I was considerng tripplite LC2400, but it does not have sequential power on/off feature. I do like its voltage stabilization and individual outlet isolation features. Please advise.

How much money do you want to spend for this?
The Monster Power HTPS-7000 looks pretty cool.?

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Take Care,
merc

I'll second Merc's nomination for the Monster 7000. Or, *any* conditioner that uses balanced power. Equi=Tech, Smart, Balanced Power Tech., Furman, etc.

Check out the following for some reviews...

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/masterindex_power_conditioners.html

Thanks for the help. I would like to spend no more than $350. After looking at the prices of some of the suggested units, I am wondering if I am going to be just wasting my money getting a sub-$500 unit?

This one is kind of intriguing in the $450 range:

http://www.furmansound.com/AR-1215.html

Be aware that a lot of "filters" can actually add distortion to your AC line:

http://www.psaudio.com/articles/power_conditioners.asp

But in the $350 range, there is Monster, Adcom, Panamax, etc. At the very least you do need surge suppression. Sequential turn-on of components is a nice thing too.

www.b-p-t.com has "cheap" balanced power too.

I think they are important, but fall in the catagory of interconnects. Dont go crazy spending here. For what spme people spend on these (like GRAY Power for example) you could do something that would be REALLY good . Like runing a dedication 20amp circuit for your theater void of all those cremlins you might get with all those lights , the family appliances etc. I do this with 1 dedicated line for amps alone and another for video components. Pick up a reasonable unit like a panamax or furman entry level unit and do the above. I think your money would be spent more wisely. A local engineer I know here in the bay area always tells me, " just give me a nice tight secure contact from the device to the plug, hospital grade of course, and everything should be fine".

Hello All,
If you have 'hospital grade' wiring in your home then you've got no problem. Otherwise a good power conditioner is a valuable addition to your system. I decided on the Monster HTS5000 MkII. It offers a good balance of features (sequential switching, isolated outlets, in and out for cable tv and telephone lines, etc.)for the money. I didnt' realize how 'dirty' the power was in my house until I installed it. It cleaned up all ground loops and RFI noise. It supports my gear pretty well. I run 3 amps and six components through it. I use one of the smaller Monster units on the outlet that I use for my television and satellite receiver. Everything is filtered and surge protected. We all value our equipment. A good power conditioner provides a little piece of mind and protection for our gear.
I wouldn't have believed it, but my bass response improved after installing the Monster. It appears to give my amps a more consistent, cleaner supply to draw from. Until next time,
Mix
( I payed about $600.00 for the HTS5000 Mk II)

Cinepro.com has a beautiful new power conditioner for $449. It includes delay and even has a cable ground isolator.

I am currently looking for a high-quality surge supressor that does not use MOVs. Smart-cinema.com has a very expensive series that use Transzorb diodes. I also found non-MOV units at ZeroSurge.com.

Does anybody know where I can get ZeroSurge units at discount prices? Thanks!

TH- www.brickwall.com might be what you're looking for...

Everett- Be careful in assuming that AC power conditioners can be lumped into the same catagory as interconnects. Check out the reviews at www.hometheaterhifi.com. They show that balanced power helps to reduce jitter in a crappy portable DVD player.

And if you look through Equi=tech's site, www.equitech.com, somewhere they say that peak jitter is reduced by 2/3 and average jitter is reduced by 1/2 using balanced power. That is real results. No simple "filter" can claim that...

For what it is worth, I have had decent results with the Monster HTS2500 which has lots of pretty lights and many plugs which are allegedly specific for different kinds of
hardware (eg amplifiers, dvd's etc)

I have had no issues with sound artifacts or surge problems. I bought it mainly because I live in an area where we have frequent lightning storms. I don't know if absence of problems equals a recommendation, but I guess a proper line conditioner is transparent to your system.

eddyboy

[This message has been edited by eddyboy (edited July 15, 2002).]

If you're buying a $900 pre-amp, several hundred $$$ for a line conditioner may be money better spent elsewhere...

If you have really bad AC, that's one thing. If you just think it's a good idea, you're better off getting a good surge protector, saving the rest for something else.

Kevin: Let me put it another way! Like interconnects, you reach that point where you only get marginal improvements from many of these overprised units. Ive had many opportunities in see and hear some really amazing home theater applications. You might be supprised how many dont have anything more than, say. a panamax 1500. What you will see is, in almost every case, dedicated wiring for the theater with upgrades in the wires themselves. Ive seen some that has such a heavy gauge they want fit into the clips, but has to be screwed on. And, of course, the extra amperage for those power sucking amps we all use. These improvements can be done for very little money and a visit to a local Home Depot. I would be amazed if ANY line conditioner could help as much as doing just that. If you already have those in place, by all means spend the money for those "really cool looking meters". I , for one, will spend my money where I believe it makes the most sense! When I made these changes in my setup, everyone noticed the difference. I havent heard any signs of those menecing ground loops. Just clean and quite. I cant really comment on the video, but I can really tell the difference in the audio, esp operating my M&K subs on its private line.

Everett,
I certainly hope that you are not recommending that non-professionals attempt to add electrical circuits to their home wiring. Do I even have to mention what disasterous results might ensue?
Do everyone a favor and please be more careful with what you 'advise'.
I'm not recommending one method over another, but as someone who has dealt with high voltage on a professional level, I would not advise it without extremely tight supervision by a pro.
Mix
Mix

There is a not so modern invention called a "circuit breaker"! But, for those that would not feel comfortable in this, I would, as Kevin has alerted, get a trained perfessional to do this. My point , again, I think all of our money is better served improving what runs through our walls more than an expensive line conditioner. I AM NOT SUGGESTING TO ANYONE TO GO OUT AND DO THIS ON THERE OWN! I am saying to maximize this flow in your walls and you will be amazed!

I'll take the PanaMax 5300 and buy the Outlaw 950 with the money I save.

While I agree that upgrading your electical is good (as is adding a surge suppressor at the panel -- where it's directly next to and connected to earth ground), I bought a line conditioner simply to get the number of outlets up to a reasonable degree. I have two amplifiers, two satellite receivers, a sub, a preamp, a VCR, a TV, and one or two more devices that need to be plugged in. I had two surge suppressor strips, but I was daisy chaining the strips. A line conditioner allows me to plug everything into one location. Also, I rent. It's pretty hard to go about upgrading someone else's electrical system (although I have rewired some of the outlets so that neutral and hot weren't miswired).

Is it common for neutral and hot to be backwards?

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

I just looked @ the Panamax 5300. Its max rating is 1800W. I have an Outlaw 750, which is also rated 1800W max. I do not listen to anything super loud. So the question is, can the Panamax 5300 handle the Amp + other A/V stuff I have, which probably totals to another 200W.

I've had no trouble running a 750, a second amp (Parasound 100Wx2, bridged to mono for a surround back channel), and all the other stuff (TV, 950, CD changer, DVD player, digital cable box, VCR) through a Panamax 5100, which is the 5300's little brother. No problems here.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I have the 950/770. 60" Tv. 2 DVD players,VHS player,Satelite all going through a 5300.
No problems so far.

Other than great relief that I finally got it chained in. And I'm still going to add to the SP area. About a week or so ago it shut down everything about 5 times over a couple days. As it was supposed to during bad storms.

My fun time, to have my purchase of 5 brand new electronic items and one of the most active lighting months we've had in a while coincide before I purchased the 5300.

This post is not a reply to any post in particular.

I don't want to sound negative, but I like the 950 because of the features available at a reasonable price. If I thought I needed a $10,000.00 line conditioner, I would probably consider moving to another house that had better power in the first place.

W

[This message has been edited by e-dogg (edited August 02, 2002).]

I wouldn't spend $10k... Although some people do.

I do think that spending a few hundred is reasonable, though. Especially if you're going to use it to protect several thousand dollars worth of equipment. My 950, amp, TV, other gear, etc. is probably at least six or seven grand at this point.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Not to mention the delayed power-up sequence which hopefully will save your speakers from popping. BTW, since I haven't actually purchased the Panamax 5300, what should be the proper delayed power-up sequence? Does the power-down sequence work in reverse of power-up? My system will have the 950 connected to 750 and ICBM for DVD-A. I will leave my DVD player, ICBM and 950 always on.

Thanks to all of you for your advise.

I believe that the 5300 has options almost identical to the 5100. The ten outlets are broken into three groups: 4 "always on" outlets (for the 950, the VCR, the satellite or cable box, etc.), 4 switched outlets (for that CD changer that doesn't have a remote power button), and 2 switched high-current outlets (for the amps). The switched outlets can be set to be always on or to come on when the 5100's "on" button is pushed -- if you have a trigger, as the 950 does, it basically pushes the button for you with the trigger. Those outlets turn on as soon as the trigger fires, but can be set to wait before turning off after the trigger cuts off (I think the options are 0 seconds, 10 seconds, and 30 seconds). The high current outlets can be set to be triggered of, and will wait either 0, 10, or 30 seconds (I think) before coming on after the trigger fires. They turn off as soon as the trigger cuts off. I'm using 30 seconds for the switched outlets (the CD changer turns on at the same time as the 950, and doesn't turn off until 30 seconds later -- gives me plenty of time to stop it before it gets it's plug pulled) and 10 seconds for the amps (the amps turn on 10 seconds after the 950, and turn off at the same time).

That may be more explanation (or more confusing explanation) than you were looking for...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Hi Matthew: In this house, many of the outlets aren't wired correctly. I don't know why. When I moved my system, one of my surge suppressors said that there was a "wiring fault." I bought a $4 device from Home Depot that you plug into the outlet and it tells you what's wrong. I switched neutral and hot and now the device says that this is wired correctly (however, there are other places where I know there isn't a true ground, but the $4 device says that everythings wired correctly.)

Gonk, as usual thank you for the detailed reply. It answered almost all my questions. The only additional clarification I need is regarding the high current outlets. Is there a delay option for turn-off on these outlets or only delayed turn-on?

Keep in mind, also, that if you trigger a 755 or a 770 off of the 950, there is an automatic 3-second power-on delay which will protect your speakers from pops. You don't need additional delays to do that. Although the 5100's delay features do sound nice in the case that you have amps that can't be triggered or don't automatically delay.

Anybody know what the 5300 gives you that the 5100 doesn't? All I can see is an extra gauge on the front.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

High current outlets have turn-on delay options only on the 5100. Likewise, the other switched outlets have a turn-off delay only.

I think the 5300 includes a couple extra protection loops for satellite and cable TV, plus a front outlet. Aside from those and the analog meter, I don't know what differences there are.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

That’s why I went with the 5300, I really did not buy the unit for a power conditioner. We get incredible light shows here, (lighting). I had never had so many new things at once, and was in a hurry for a one box solution to protect everything including the ‘back door’ for a bad surge, your coaxial cables.
If you pull up Panamax’s site you can line by line compare. If you’ve got a fix for your sat/cable feeds then I think the 5100 is a perfect buy. You really don’t need the meter, (I never look at it) and the top joule # is the same for the 5100 and the 5300. The joule rating is a little higher on the 5500 unit.
I am prob. going to chain a brick wall or similar, (series mode protector Vs MOV protection) in front of the Panamax when I get to it. The brick wall however did not sell a ‘one box’ solution and I was in a hurry.

If it’s okay to post this, here’s a link to this very topic (conditioners) on HTF you might find interesting for the different opinions.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81398

I picked this up from http://www.powersystemsdirect.com/30/183.htm?710

Given the differences, is it worth spending the extra $'s for 5300?


Here is a list of differences between the 5300 and the 5100:
The Max5300 has 11 outlets vs 10, including a front convenience outlet. The 5300 provides protection for 2 satellite and 2 coax lines, vs 1 and 1. This unit has double balanced L filtration circuits vs balanced L circuits. This unit has a analog voltmeter vs a led version. This unit has a DC output trigger. Finally, this unit has a detachable power cord.

Is the Panamax 5xxx series sacrificial?

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Jimr, don’t know what to say, because its personal choice, the only factors that would influence me, if all else met your needs…do you want the DC outlet trigger, and would you use the convenience outlet? The power cord, well, that’s a feature for me that on all my electronics I’ve only used once. A TV where it went bad and had to be replaced. Otherwise I’d take the money and buy DVD’s 

Matthew, yes according to the Series mode supporters, all MOV are sacrificial. This worries me as I routinely get lots of hits, and how do I judge degradation? (No meter for that). Panamax states (can’t remember wording) that they are using something different/added on the newer models, which is not straight MOV. But it definitely is still not Series mode. If I lived in a region where it was very rare to see your power go on and off, I would not worry about using MOV/Series issue. But I get to hear the concert of chirps/beeps/pops as various do-dad’s in the house power up & down…. very disconcerting.

Since according to Series mode makers, there is no joule rating because the Surge Protector will fry at the same ‘hit’ level that your house wiring will with the additional benefit of no degradation regardless of hits, I think I will add this in.

Nothing will save me on a direct hit, and just last month a house in our area burned down, (lighting strike).
But I want it protected up to the ‘nothing will save you’ point.

Does this make a difference? "This unit has double balanced L filtration circuits vs balanced L circuits."

Here is a list of differences between the 5300 and the 5100:
The Max5300 has 11 outlets vs 10, including a front convenience outlet. The 5300 provides protection for 2 satellite and 2 coax lines, vs 1 and 1. This unit has double balanced L filtration circuits vs balanced L circuits. This unit has a analog voltmeter vs a led version. This unit has a DC output trigger. Finally, this unit has a detachable power cord.

[This message has been edited by MeanGene (edited August 05, 2002).]

Unfortunately I am quite ignorant when it comes to power systems. Maybe someone who understands the term and circuit can provide their opinion on the subject.

I would guess that it means that there's twice as many of some particular doodad in the box.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Note that:



has absolutely nothing to do with actual balanced AC. They are talking about "balanced" filters.

Is there *any* way to tell whether the MOVs in the Panamax 5xxx are still functioning, and to what extent? Is there a "replace me" light or gauge on it anywhere, or does it just fail after so many hits and you don't know it until the next hit takes out all your stuff?

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

You definitly get a warning light if the unit is in total failure. But far as I know, no gas gauge type situation, so you know when your headed towards E.

In fairness to MOV, many post it does not degrade as much as is represented by the Series group. It will degrade the most at the first couple of hits then stabilize.
I just live with such frequent lightning, that it concerns me more than most prob need to worry.