If the Outlaws see value in letting customers update the code at home, instead of making us ship the units to Outlaw for them to update the code, maybe the new 950, the one with the hiss fix, might support it. It seems that allowing customers to update code like the 1066 does, is a no-brainer. Well maybe it seems like a no-brainer now, in retrospect, but it's probably too late to make that change to the 950.

For an unshielded power supply, to swap the EEPROMs, just like a PC, right?

In other words, you just have to make damn sure that you are grounded properly before you swap chips or else you could fry them?

Will,

I am afraid that the Outlaw's made the decision that the addition of the upgrade feature would raise the cost beyond their target price. While I am not entirely sure that I believe that reasoning, I think that their declared position renders the probability that they would add that feature extremely low.

It's really too bad, as that addition would make ny decision whether to buy so much easier.

Regards,
Santa Clara Jim



[This message has been edited by santaclarajim (edited July 23, 2002).]

For an A/V pre/processor, I think the ability to update the microcode is important. It is certainly needed for bug fixes. Taking the unit into a shop is a major pain.

As an electronics engineer, an eprom change is nothing. To a non-technical user, it may be asking a bit much.

Presently, I am using a Sony str-db940 as a pre/processor and amplification for the rear channels. My main preamp is a Nakamichi 610.

I am looking at pre/processors to replace both the Nakamichi and the Sony. Sound quality takes precedence over (mostly gimmiks to me) settings like stadium, church, symphony hall, small jazz club, etc.

With newer comuters doing away with old technology such as rs232 ports, keyboard, mouse and such, I even question the wisdom of new designs offering a rs232 port. Firewire seems attactive to me as both a bitsteam input to be processed (dvd-a and sacd) and processor updates.

Paul

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the 1derful1

Well, I'd love to have an Ethernet port in it, for both remote control (via a PC) and software updates. To me, that would simply be the cat's meow. Maybe put in an HPNA port for the phone line people in the audience. The point is, I want a supplied program that paints a picture of a 950 on my PC and allows me to push buttons with the mouse. Updates delivered on CD-ROM.

Of course multiple firewire ports for bitstream inputs are definitely necessary.

It looks like the Outlaws didn't reject the upgradability argument altogether; after all, the ROM *is* socketd. They just don't seem to be too interested in putting out updates for it.

On another note, it turns out that all of the 950 fixes so far have not been simple code changes; the code seems to be pretty good so far. Of course, all code needs a fix sooner or later.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

well I'm sure the lawyers will kill any eprom changes. Well your honor, the company sent me a new chip, with this one sheet instruction, telling me to open the unit, now???????????I DO NOT THINK THIS WILL EVER HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why not? People open up PCs all the time to install more memory, additional drives, sound cards, etc...

And once upon a time, people had to extract RAM DIPP chips with a chip puller to install larger chips ... as opposed to today's SIMMs and DIMMs and ZIFs...

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Actually, I think this is a bigger issue for the Outlaw clones than for Outlaw themselves. At the 950's price point, I wouldn't consider the unit "disposable," but it may be low enough for this type of product that many will be well served by its "snapshot in time." Remember, the upgrade pricing for competitive pre/pros often approaches the total cost of the 950! But buyers of the 950 clones, at higher price points, may expect a platform, not a box.

Of course, the high end receiver market completely contradicts this: I spent $2600 on a Yamaha DSP-A1 a few years back, and there's no way to upgrade it, the RX-V1 that replaced it, or the RX-Z1 that's replacing that. Nearly all the receiver manufacturers follow the same business model.

There's another reason in favor of boxes vs. platforms: accounting. As a product marketing manager, one of my biggest headaches was this: if you ship a product, you want to recognize the revenue (you sold it, you want the money you received to show up on your books). But if the unit is upgradeable, your accountants may not consider the sale complete - and you may have to defer some of the revenue until you ship upgrades.

-avi

http://www.greengart.com

Avi- Good point! Both the AT and Sherbourn units I presume will "street" for a very similar price to the Rotel. The Rotel, *is* upgradeable...

As far as *reasonably priced* receivers, I guess that the manufacturers figure that an *upgrade* is the next receiver in the line. Yamaha RX-V1200 to the 1300. Denon AVR-3802 to the 3803...

I also think that in the reasonably priced receiver market, the products are upgraded much more often by the manufacturer (every year to 18 months) than pre/pros (the Sony TA-E9000ES is almost 4 years old!), so the changes between models are more incremental than revolutionary, so maybe there are less reasons to offer upgrades as well. If that makes sense...