Merc,

Wasn't really a newsletter, just a post from Scott promising news... either when shipments resumed, or by the week of the 5th, whichever came sooner. Guess it was neither.

Merc,

Scott's post is the fifth in this thread:

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000435.html


brianca

Well, the 'update' finally showed up, a little late, of course.

In my opinion, it was just non-news. Basically, the only thing they said was: we're still working on it, hope to start shipping soon!

Shocking, groundbreaking news to anyone?

I must say, the primary reason I waited for the 950 rather than going with the AVM-20 (which I thought, and still think, is a more flexible product) was the extra money. I simply didn't have the money for the AVM-20. Or the MC-12.

I was very lucky to get my 950 during the second set of shipments (after the first, infuriating stoppage because of the DD dropout bug). And, I've been happy with it. It's a great product.

But if I wasn't in that early group, and I was still waiting for the 950 now, going on 10 months after I first expected it, I must say that things would be different. Ten months is a lot of time to save up, and I now *do* have enough money to buy an AVM-20 if I'd wanted to.

Long and short of the matter; we are WAY long past the breaking point now, folks. I am personally *never* waiting for an Outlaw product again. From now on, I may wait for something from another company, but as far as Outlaw goes, I'm judging them strictly based on what they have shipping.

That means, that if I find myself in possesion of $2k or $3k in three or four years, and an itch for a new, higher-end pre/pro, and the Outlaws already have a big brother for the 950 shipping, I'll very seriously consider it. But if it comes down to spending $2k on the outlaw and waiting for it, or $4k on a competitor that happens to be shipping at the moment, you know what I think I'll choose. The only variable is whether or not $4k is in the bank; if it's there, I'll spend it.

I feel very burned by the whole 950 thing. It was a very stressful experience (yes nobody needs to tell me it's not a cure for cancer) and I won't put myself through it again for the sake of a few hundred bucks. If I could, right now, get those 6 or 8 or whatever it was months back, in exchange for the money I saved, I'd do it. Keep in mind people, I'd *sold* my previous stuff based on the Outlaws' promise.

Now, for it to be something like two months *past* the time when the 950 started shipping, and still no firm date on when the people on the wait list will be serviced, I'd be furious if I was still on that list.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm being overly harsh here. My mood is made all the worse by the fact that the 950 is, in actuality, a very good product. And, because I also really believe in the Outlaw's business model and what they 're trying to do.

The worst tragedy that could possibly come out of all this is for the Outlaw's to throw in the towel after the 950 and go back to simply making amps. There's a lot they can still do for the high-end pre/pro and receiver market, if they get their s**t together.

Maybe they tried to hit too low a price point on the 950. Maybe they were just naieve and made a lot of mistakes on the first production run. Maybe they cut corners they shouldn't have. Who knows? I just hope they take a good long, hard look at this situation and don't repeat it.

That doesn't, of course, mean shutting up about a product or potential product until it ships. If anything, they need even more communcation with the customer and need to keep their deadlines and promises, even if the progress they'd hoped to report hasn't been made yet. This late newsletter thing is just a joke.

They also should learn from the double bass thing on the 950. A feature that they put in, hoping for it to be useful, instead turned into a liability because there was no way to disable it. They NEED to talk to their customers and find out how they're going to be using these things, and that includes sending out proposed features lists before they're finalized, in order to get it right the next time.

Oh, and by the way, the "week of the 5th" ends at 5:00 PM when I leave work on Friday. The newsletter was 57 hours late. And woefully lacking in concrete information. And, DON'T say "by the week of the 5th" when you mean "by the 9th." You don't use the term "week of" to describe deadlines; deadlines are a hard, instantaneous point in time. They are NOT a date range.

------------------
Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Yes but the business model has a dark side: note the complaints above.


[This message has been edited by Will (edited August 13, 2002).]

Just to let the Outlaws know: I, for one, very much concur with Mr. Hill. He stated my, and I'm pretty sure many others, sentiments exactly.
I took the leap-of-faith of buying a 1050 when I went on the 950 waiting list. The 1050 is a great unit in it's own right, but what I really wanted was the feature-set of the 950, or something similar. I never guessed that I would be waiting so long. I would have purchased the Anthem, or the Lex, or even the Rotel a long time ago if I had had a clue what the wait would be.
Now I understand from the post that the next units shipped will go to those who not only have defective units, and I think that this is the right thing to do, but to those who have 950's and are worried that they don't have the latest 'update'. If you read some of the other threads you'll find people already lining up for their 'replacements'. I understand Outlaw's commitment to their existing clientale. I just hope that they use a judicious hand in doling out 950's to those that just want a new toy when they already have a perfectly good 950. Just my two cents worth.
I still want my own 950, but I will purchase elsewhere at the end of the month.
'Till next time,
Mix

Would have been nice to have had a shipping date in there somewhere...

Matthew, unfortunately I feel the same way. But there's no way I can justify $2500 for the Anthem when it most certainly isn't worth $1500 more than the Outlaw. (IMO, anyway! )

And I was back looking at the Rotel (mate it with a Pioneer 45a which *looks* like it will have bass management for both (SACD and DVD-A), but it has the stupid double bass problem too. Unbelievable...


I *want* to spend some money, but there's no product out there in my price range (< $2k). Somehow, doesn't seem like capitalism is exactly working in this instance.

Mr. Hill, You hit the nail on the head. My sentiments exactly. I am officially still on the waiting list BTW.

I spent my $900 on a Denon 3802 a couple of months ago. One of the few good investments I have made lately. Turns out to be an excellent decision. In the back of my mind I am still considering buying the 950 after it started shipping again. I would sell the 3802 for a big loss but still get the 950. Sorta like paying a rental charge just to be up and running.

For two months now I have been enjoying the HT and must have watched 20 - 30 DVDs. Taking the family to the movies at 40 bucks a pop more than makes up for it. (A CRT projector on a big screen is better than the theater anyway.)

You brought up a good point. One that I have considered. What if at the end of baseball season, Outlaw announces the introduction of the high end pre/pro. "Deliveries beginning soon." You pick a delivery date. I would certainly be interested in the product coupled with the 770. Would you or anyone consider getting on the wait list?

Outlaw has the lessons learned from the 950 to build on. I expect they would be able to deliver an excellent product. Especially if they listened to the comments made in the new pre/pro wish list saloon. Again, the Outlaw model is to deliver a great product at an unbeatable price. Sorta irresitable.

But after the bitter pill of being strung along as long as we have, would you really put yourself through it again?

------------------
No matter where you go, there you are.

mj

Maybe the answer is yes.

Let's go back two and half years, to April 2000.

In April 2000 (early spring 2000) the Outlaw Newsletter email said Outlaw won't build the pre/pro previously announced for spring 2000 and instead would build two separate pre/pro's, one to ship in late spring 2000 and the other to ship in fall 2000.

In November 2000 the Outlaw Newsletter email said they'd ship the two pre/pro's in the first six months of 2001.

In February 2001 the Outlaw Newsletter email said they'd ship the first of the two pre/pro's by June/July 2001.

In July 2001 the Outlaw Newsletter email said the Model 950 would ship by October 2001.

In September 2001 the Outlaw Newsletter email said the Model 950 would ship by Thanksgiving 2001 or earlier.

About a week before Thanksgiving 2001 the Outlaw Newsletter email said the ship date had slipped but Outlaw was nevertheless "committed to volume shipments well in advance of the Holiday Season ... in time for you to welcome Santa with a full 7.1 surround demo on Christmas Eve"

On Christmas Eve, December 24, 2001 the Outlaw Newsletter email said they would not ship (surprise!) by Christmas afterall. But they were fully confident it would ship within 3 weeks.

It didn't ship then either.

(If anything in the above is inaccurate please let me know so I can correct it.)

You guys probably know the more recent story since February 2002, so I won't bore you with it here.

In hindsight, we shouldn't have waited with baited breath on each new ship date officially promised by Outlaw, after Outlaw missed so many of their previously promised ship dates. Yes, we felt strung along. But there weren't many DPL II pre/pro alternatives back then, unless you wanted to pay much more. These days, though, there are some pretty good DPL II alternatives.


Yup.


[This message has been edited by Will (edited August 13, 2002).]

Right now it's a race...

I'll buy whichever of the 950 or the new SherwoodNewcastle comes out first. Honestly, this has been so ridiculous I'd rather give my money to Sherwood.