Hey, what about MOST of us with "old" 950's that do not have noise problems?? I guess you might call us the "Silent Majority"

Steves, you are right, we are the "silent majority" and a large majority I think we are. I meant mostly the people still waiting and of course the handful that do have this problem.

I suspect it is only a handful as you say. But some people who hear the slight hiss from more than a few inches away, probably won't ask for a return. My original 950 is acceptable even with its slight hiss. But in my case, I would prefer one with less hiss. But others who hear hiss might not want the hassle of disconnecting and boxing up the old 950, and getting and connecting the new 950, just to reduce a slight hiss. (shrug).

It's possible the slight hiss might contribute to the harshness some people are hearing on the 950, but I have no evidence about that, one way or the other.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited June 19, 2002).]

Will,

I'm very pleased to hear that the Outlaws are taking care of you. I am not surprised, but I know there are some who are/would be.

I'll be looking forward to hearing your thoughts after you receive your new one.

Thanks for letting us know!

------------------
pat----

email: pat@sklenar.info ---===--- home page: Grumpy's Lair

I've had the first 950 for a couple of months, and the second 950 for about one month. I've now listened to both of them long enough to have some opinions, and by now these opinions have withstood the test of time, at least somewhat. Also by now, even the second 950 has broken in. I communicated my opinions to Scott a few weeks ago, but haven't heard back from him. Incidentally, Ricky (aka rmbg on this forum) heard both 950s earlier this month, briefly, when he dropped by my home while trying to find if his 950 had a problem. Ricky, pleae feel free to chime in, if you'd like.

I do not know if my second 950 is an early fix for the hiss problem, or if it is (close to) the final fix for the hiss problem. So for that reason, I don't know if what I'm about to say here concerning my second 950 also applies to Outlaw's eventual final hiss fix or not. Also, the following is just *my* personal opinion.

When comparing the first and second 950's, there's a difference in the hiss level, as expected. But there's ALSO a difference in the overall sound, which I did not expect.

As for the hiss difference, the hiss is definitely reduced in the second unit. It is not eliminated. The amount of hiss heard from 20 inches away on the old 950, is now heard from about 12 inches away on the new 950, in my home theater system. It's a definite improvement. But the hiss is still there at least on my system, from more than 4 inches from my speakers. Now I need to add three caveats. One, my speakers are very efficient. Two, I cannot hear any hiss, from either 950, from my normal listening positions. This means I'm not sure that the hiss should matter at all. And three, because some people have discussed power supplies, I want to disclose that, while my home theater has a power conditioner, it's an inexpensive one, not a mega-expensive top-of-the-line conditioner.

Now I'd like to talk about the difference in the sound. Here's my observations in a nutshell:

The first 950 sounds more alive and vibrant. The second 950 sounds more laid back, mellow and perhaps, veiled. If you want a more forward sound, you'd like my first 950. If you want a somewhat warmer sound, you'd like my second 950. The difference in the overall sound is not exactly subtle. You can hear it pretty clearly. Ricky also noticed the difference in the sound.

I think, based on some of the posts I've read comparing the Outlaw 950 to the Rotel 1066, the new 950 probably sounds more like the Rotel 1066. But please take this with a grain of salt since I've never heard the Rotel first hand. The difference between the two 950s is pretty distinct, on my HT. Both sound nice. But in different ways. As I mentioned to Scott, it's almost like I wish the 950 had a switch so I could turn switch from "alive" to "mellow". If I were pressed to, I would say the new 950, with the mellow sound, is a more "typically" sounding rig. It sounds like most everything else out there, that I've heard. The old 950 by contrast, with the lively sound, has a magic to it. It has an open air vibrant and exciting sound, somehow.

So which do I prefer? For snazzy jazz, where you want to hear the zing, I prefer my first 950. For certain concertos, with classical harpsichords and such, where you maybe want to hear the sound in a more veiled light, I might prefer my second 950. I'm not 100% sure about this so don't take what I'm saying as gospel.
I've always liked the sound of the first 950, despite its hiss. In many ways I like the sound from the hissier first 950 more than the less hissy second 950. I can't hear the hiss from my listening position, at least not consciously. But maybe subconsciously I *like* some hiss in the background, and maybe subconsciously, I perceive the hiss as making the hissy 950 sound more "alive". Or maybe in order to reduce the hiss in the second 950 its sound quality may have been compromised. I'm sure this will all sort itself out eventually.

Other than this, both units seem to behave identically. Both the same good things, and the same bad things, both of which have been pretty well documented.

By the way, even though I've been referring to both of these 950's as my 950, actually they're not both mine since I only paid for one. I will have to return one.

If anybody has any question, feel free to post your questions here.

Will- I got to ask buddy!

When you compared the sound quality between the two units, did you match sound levels? I'm just wondering if the differences you heard might or might not be related to one unit being "louder" than the other...

Yes. If I played a CD on one 950 and then on the other 950, I made certain the volume levels were the same, as well as the trim settings for the various channels and the crossover frequencies, of course. The sound differences I hear are not, I believe, related to volume. I compared both 2 channel and multichannel (DTS NEO:6) sound. Did not compare the movie watching experience much since I listen to music more and also, I worry that the eye's senses when watching a movie may somehow affect the objectiveness of the ears.

Will, its likely the gains were changed, perhaps only slightly, trying to get rid of the elusive hiss. A simple 1-1.5dB difference in gain would make the difference virtually unnoticeable, except the results would be what you have described. What I'm being too long winded about is the fact that unless you have a sound level meter, just using the same settings may not work.
Mike

I can't be positive the gains are set identically. But I listened over a large volume range. The first 950 sounded more lively, throughout the large volume range. The second 950, by comparison, sounded more laid back and mellow, throughout the large volume range. The sound difference is pretty apparent, INDEPENDENT of whether one 950's volume was RELATIVELY higher than the other 950's volume, or lower.

That's why I think it's not a volume difference issue. Rather, the two units sound different.

The first 950 may sound harsher than the second 950, to some listeners. To me, the first 950 sounds more lively and forward than the second 950. But I imagine that people who think the (original un-updated) 950 sounds harsh, may like the way my second 950 sounds.

It's maybe like the way the original 950 is said to sound different from the Rotel 1066. The Rotel is said to be more veiled and the original 950 is said to be harsher.

Will



[This message has been edited by Will (edited July 25, 2002).]

I imagine Gonk has a 950 that's newer than the hiss-fixed version I tested, which sounded different than the original 950. It would be nice to know what sort of changes (hardware and software) were made to the "final" hiss-fixed 950. Was the Cirrus Logic firmware updated?