Count me in as a casual reader/sometimes poster that has been watching these forums, and my excitement for this product went from "Sure, I will wait for a product like this", to "Wow, there are many other good options out there!" At this point, I doubt that I will buy the 950. The Outlaw silence does bother me quite a bit. The double bass and hiss issues aren't that big of a deal to me, but the build quality is definitely an issue. Vanity is not the whole issue, either. My whole perception of Outlaw in the last six months or so went from seeing them as a hard working, producer of quality goods that they sell directly over the internet, to a group that makes as many shortcuts as possible to intruduce a product that has the right specs and price. There is nothing really wrong with them, as I see it, but the perception I know have is not good. I may buy an amp from them someday, but I don't know now.

Anyway, all this rumbling gets me to the final conclusion: I was going to buy a 950/770 combo, and now I will very likely buy something else (Rotel, anyone?). Paying a bit extra for something I perceive as better quality and value is worth it to me.

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Benjamin King
benjaminking@yahoo.com

Everyone needs to take a deep breath and take it easy. Just read this !


At this time, it has become obvious that an update is necessary on the status of the 950. While earlier delivery estimates have fallen short, this has never been our intention. However, as you know, shipping of the Model 950 has come to a stop. As you may also know, a small number of units have shipped with an abnormal level of hiss.

The cause of this hiss has become the topic of heavy debate in the Outlaw Saloon as well as in other online forums. It has also become a significant burden to our engineers here in the United States as well as our engineering team in Malaysia. Literally working around the clock we have been able to isolate a few potential causes. Further complicating things is the fact that this problem is confined to a small sample of units making it harder, not easier, to solve. There are many individual factors pertaining to each installation which means a "fix" that works in the lab might not work in the field. The hardware and software engineering required to get to the bottom of things is a very time consuming process. If everyone had the same problem, it would be easy.

The "good news" is, while the reports of problems sometimes seem magnified by postings on the forums, their actual number in proportion to the number of units shipped is very small. The "bad news" is that the small number of samples and the variations in the way in which the problems manifest themselves make the solution harder to reach.

We are continuing to investigate the root cause for this anomaly, and will continue our commitment to resolving this issue for each and every consumer. Since several customers have contacted us regarding a lack of communication regarding both the status of the 950 and our intentions, here is our interim proposal:

· If your 950 exhibits an abnormal level of hiss, please send an e-mail with the serial number of your unit and your name, phone number and address to 950service@outlawaudio.com. We will then send confirmation of your letter. Once a universal fix has been established we will process your request and tell you how to send the unit back to our warehouse and service center. We will arrange for a pick-up by FedEx Ground at our expense, and we will ship a modified unit back to you prepaid.
· The timing for all of this will be worked out with you via e-mail.

Given that anyone who was unhappy with their initial unit has already had the option to return it within the 30-day audition period, we feel that this is a reasonable way to accommodate those who appreciate the sonics and features of the Model 950.

In addition, we will begin to provide more timely updates regarding the status of the product. What we can not do is provide estimates as to when individual units will ship. Calling/e-mailing the Sales and Support office regarding this status will only further hinder our ability to work efficiently at resolving the issue. However, we will continue to encourage any and all contact regarding the operation, use, and/or integration of our equipment.

One last comment. While we have been extremely liberal regarding the use of our Saloon, we have NEVER stopped reading it or any other industry news boards. Due to the roller coaster like nature of the hiss problem we felt it would have done more harm than good to comment in many of the ongoing threads. Giving out information that ultimately proves to be inaccurate only makes the situation worse for everyone. These new, timelier updates will inform you of our continuing progress in dealing with this situation.

We thank you for your patience and understanding.

Best Regards,

The Outlaws


This was posted yesterday on the tread just below this one!! And Scott answered my email yesterday by calling my house and leaving me his office # because of his concern of what's been going on! I think that they are doing the best they can, but just remember, their only human too!!!

hey benjaminking, i would just like to say that the build quality of the 950 is just fine, there is nothing wrong with it, what do you expect? six inch steel plating everywhere? i have see a lot worse for the money. and by the way outlaw will not "go under". also i am not trying to be rude, i am just stating what i thing.

From what I've gathered, Outlaw's other products are selling well, and the company is extremely lean and well capitalized. They're a young company with a new business model, and the 950 has hit more than a few bumps getting out the door. However, if there's one thing we've learned, it's that there's plenty of demand for the 950 - even if some customers have been frustrated and the competition gets some of the business.
Should Outlaw fix whatever problems the unit has and get it out in volume - and all indications are that they're working on it - it looks like the 950 will be quite successful.

Going forward, I expect less in the way of predicted shipping dates and longer/more involved beta test cycles for all their electronics-based products.

While it isn't pleasant to wait for a product you sorely want, it's hardly a reason to assume a company is going out of business!

-avi

taking a 60 second break from "real life" before I have to dive into my next problem here in the office. However, chalk me up as another believer in the "Not going out of Business" and as an 'agreer' in the "need to communicate more" columns. Now as to the form of that communication ... they've got this nice web site & this forum. I undrestand, and fully support, their reasons for not being active on other forums, but I'm having difficulty understanding why they don't use this venue more fully.

But regardless, I don't believe Outlaw Audio is going away any time soon. And I still expect to see them releasing new products as they go forward. Just my opinion ... humble or otherwise.

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pat----

email: pat@sklenar.info ---===--- home page: Grumpy's Lair

They have to. The 1050 is already dated. The ICBM will become dated eventually, as more DVD-A/SACD players do DVD-A/SACD bass management, internally.


[This message has been edited by Will (edited August 23, 2002).]

I'd like to see them do an ICBM II with adjustable volume pots on each output. (That would fix the individual channel volume problem when using it *after* a pre/pro or receiver-as-a-pre/pro.) There's other stuff they could do too, without much engineering effort or re-design...

I'd love an ICBM II which incorporates a transparent dual input 5.1 channel switcher. That way, we could use a single ICBM for both DVD-A and SACD.

I wonder if most of Outlaw's monthly revenue these days comes from the sale of their amplifiers.

Will: I would guess so. It's also their "traditional" product.

Hmm, ICBM-II also has to have an input trigger, of course, to switch inputs... Master volume would be nice, too... And maybe a "bypass" switch to make it straight-trough temporarily without futzing with the knobs and losing your settings...

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net