Sorry to be negative about what I'm sure will be a great product for many on this forum. However, for those who want to use this unit to operate a second room and actually control the source/volume from the second room, then this is not the pre/pro for you. I've posted on this subject here and at the HT Forum.

First, the substantive issues of Zone 2:

I sent Outlaw an e-mail via their web submission form with the following questions:



Outlaw dutifully responded within 4-5 days as follows:



I appreciated the response, but particularly with regard to discrete IR codes and navigating punch down menus, the reply was non-responsive and not informative. So I replied back on April 29th as follows:



Well, 9 days later, I've gotten no response from Scott or anyone else at Outlaw. I believe I raised some pretty legitimate questions. Even if they are researching the issue, a quick reply stating that fact would be nice. I know others have accused Outlaw of playing favorites with their customers (coddling some, ignoring others). I have to say that certainly seems to be the case in this instance.

Meanwhile, with the passage of time, I've decided to go another direction. I'm putting my 2095 in on a custom install job I'm doing that will only be 5.1 (due to wife approval factor). So, I'll be selling it, and just moving to a new 7.1 receiver. Which, by the way, everyone I've looked at so far (in the $1,100 to $2,000 range) has video zone 2 out, selectable record out, and dedicated codes (and in most cases separate remotes) for zone 2 proving that these features are not expensive to implement.

As Outlaw is a relatively new company, hopefully they'll learn just a little bit from this: one, design a better zone 2 system; and two, ignoring your potential customers causes them to seek other alternatives and not buy your product.

Sorry this is so long, but confession (and venting) is good for the soul.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliffk (edited May 09, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Cliffk (edited May 09, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Cliffk (edited May 09, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Cliffk (edited May 09, 2002).]

Hello Cliff,

Unfortunately, I never received your last email. I apologize if I somehow allowed it to slip through the cracks (if this proves to be the case). However, please allow me to reread the last section of your post and answer accordingly.

Scott,

Thanks for the quick reply here. I understand that no communication method is foolproof. I look forward to your response, but am not optimistic about there being a solution (given your previous response and the 950 manual).

Take care,
Cliff

I will post a complete response tomorrow once I've had time to investigate this feature more extensively. Just a quick note, please understand that I take all inquiries VERY seriously. Sometimes it gets pretty busy (especially lately)and a question might get missed. If this is what occured in your case I apologize.

Also, the web site and system look great, nice work!

CliffK,
While I don't use the 2nd Zone functions of my 950 at all I can see where the limitations of this unit in that regard would probably emilinate it from consideration for a multi-room installation, especially when you factor video into the mix.

However, I do find the limitation of video recording tied to the main source a bit of an inconvenience that I just became aware of last night. I had this feature on my Denon 5700 and just assumed it would work that way as well on the 950. Ever since I added a PVR (Dish 501) to my arsenal I hardly ever use tape any more but there are some occasions where I dump some recordings from the PVR to tape to archive a program or two.

I tried to do this last night for the first time and I found out that it would only work when the recording source material was limited to the active input. On my 5700 you could select any video source for recording while any other source was playing. In my case there is a simple work around (a direct connection from the PVR to the VCR) but I can see where this would become a major issue if your needs were more complex.

Is the 950 a great sounding an performing unit? Yes. Will it provide every single function of some of the mega receivers out there? No. You have to see if it meets your needs and act accordingly. Nothing wrong with that.

And I hope that Outlaw is taking notes. The features you mention should definitely be incorporated into the next Outlaw Pre-pro.

[This message has been edited by Robert A Fowkes (edited May 10, 2002).]

While I am not concerned about the video switching features, the usability of the zone B remote is important to me. What's the point of having the zone B feature if you have to navigate menus blind to control it?

What I hoping to hear is that the codes for setting volume, selecting sources, etc. that are received through the zone B IR jack are remapped, in software, to the zone B equivalents. That would mean no menus when working through the IR jack, but the ability to use the same remote, or learn directly from the same remote, instead of discrete codes.

If this isn't the case, what are the chances for a fix?

I was going to add this to the beta thread, but the subject matter there seems to be a bit different: Did any of the beta testers hook up and use zone B?

--Mike


[This message has been edited by Llamas (edited May 10, 2002).]

Llamas,

You may be correct about the zone 2 implementation of source/volume control received through the IR repeater jack.

I was looking at the Pioneer VSX-47TX manual last night and that's what it appears to do.

However, the problem with this for me and for other custom install uses is that all of my equipment is controlled by whole house IR. That is, in the HT, my equipment is in a closet behind the room, and even in the main listening room, I use IR repeating with infared blinker emitters. Obviously, I use the same emitters for the signals received downstairs (Zone 2). My Zone 2 is actually 4 pairs of speakers throught the lower level of my home (with independent volume control, but only one source for all four pairs of speakers). I have a total of 5 IR windows for receiving IR throughout the house.
So, I couldn't use the rear IR jack for Zone 2 control because my IR system for the HT and Zone 2 are integrated. With discrete codes, this isn't a problem.

If there are internal codes for which the Hex code info. can be determined, then I could put that into my Pronto. Otherwise, I'm out of luck.

-Cliff

I used and tested Zone 2 during the orginal beta. It works well for what I need.

In my system, Zone 2 is six pairs of speakers in the dining room, kitchen, library, garage, basement, and deck. With a multiroom setup like this, each room MUST have its own volume control. If you turn on the system to listen in one room, you don't want it to play everywhere - especially not on the outdoor speakers. I set the 950's Zone 2 volume to the maximum that I want the weakest speakers in the system to play at, and then I use the local volume control to adjust it down from there.

If anything, I'm more interested in controlling my CD player remotely than changing sources on the 950. I have a LeapFrog IR-RF remote control extender that lets me work the CD player functions from anywhere in the house, but I really don't use it much. I generally set Zone 2 to play the radio or shuffle through a few CDs, and then just let it go for a few hours without adjusting anything.

My favorite thing about the 950's multizone capability is that it has a separate trigger.

After reading the details of Cliff's and Jeff's respective configurations, neither of which match what I want to do, I can appreciate the thought that needs to go into designing the specifications for the remote zone feature.

I'm hoping that Scott will answer soon. If I cannot set things up so that my second zone (just one room) can be controlled easily via remote, my purchase plan will likely change. My HT is a 5.1 setup, so the other two channels of the 770 were to drive the zone 2 speakers in the room on the other side of the wall. And if I change my focus to upgrading just a 5.1 system, ugh... my whole set of choices, whether receiver or pre/pro, and amp, changes.

--Mike


[This message has been edited by Llamas (edited May 12, 2002).]

We are still doing some testing. Sorry for the delay, more to follow.

Scott