I am getting ready to buy a HT receiver. After several weeks of research, I have narrowed it down to either the 1050 or the Denon 1802, or more probably the 1803 that just seems to have replaced it. After seeing all the positive reviews of the 1050, I am 90% certain that this may be the better choice. The only reason I'm considering the Denon is because Cheap Home Theater recommended the 1802 as being the best $500 receiver (just edged the 1050). However, the one "deficiency" if you like that concerns me in particular with the 1050 is the lack of Dolby Pro-Logic II. If it had this, I would be placing my order right now. So I guess my questions are:
1) How important is DPL II anyway? I have no prerecorded video tapes, don't have DSS/cable, don't watch sports much, and I'm wondering if I would really miss it. The lack of a ".1" channel, no rear channel stereo and rear channel bandwidth limitation on DPL when I would be using the 1050 are what concerns me most.
2) Does the 1050 have upgradable firmware that means maybe DPL II could be added in the future?
I would be interested to hear the opinions on this.

Thanks!

1) With no Pro-Logic video tapes and no satellite or cable, you are not likely to make use of PL2 much or even at all. It can be used with music, but many people (myself included) tend to prefer stereo for music listening. It can also be used with DVD's that are Dolby 2.0 to give a somewhat better surround experience.

2) The 1050 will not be receiving a PL2 upgrade, I'm afraid.

Cheap Home Theater gave the edge to the 1050 in amplification, but seemed to like the extra features of the 1802. The 1803 looks to have picked up component video switching (absent from the 1802 and 1050, and a somewhat questionable value in a ~$500 receiver anyway), but it still lacks pre-amp outputs -- so you can't add a separate amp later. Perhaps not a problem for CHT, but certainly something of a limitation if you want to keep that upgrade path available.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Gonk is right on. I use DPL on the 1050 quite a lot because I watch Discovery, TLC, History etc on the DirecTiVo STB quite a lot and most of that is either DD 2.0 or old fashioned non-DD stereo.

I've never missed DPL2 for movies; most of the ones I watch seem to be either mono, 5.1 or 6.1, so it's not really applicable.

The 1050 has a few minor issues:

• Some folks have trouble with the svideo switcher.
• There is some weirdness with a 5.1 configuration and some 6.1 material.
• The volume knob isn't always responsive to the helm (although the remote always works)
• Minor oddities, like the buttons on the remote light up, but most of the labels are silk-screened ABOVE the buttons (!)
• Minor oddity two, the inputs cycle from the front panel in a different order than the direct select buttons are presented on the remote.

Overall I'd say it's a very good unit, and I'm being very critical here in an effort to inform you of everything I can remember.

[This message has been edited by charlie (edited March 18, 2003).]

I vote for the 1050, I looked at all the receivers before I bought the 1050, and I am glad I bought it, very well made and a great forum too..

Well, I'm glad for the feedback. On my budget, dropping $500 for a component isn't trivial and I want to be sure I'm getting the right one!

I definitely wouldn't be tinkering with regular stereo music; this is the main mode the 1050 would be used in. Sending this through any less of a direct signal path than necessary is anathema to me. We want something that will do double duty as an outstanding audio player with the HT thrown in as well.

One final concern; since the 1050 has been around for a while, what's the chances it will be phased out any time in the near future? Gonk seems to have the inside track on the Outlaws; he knows there is no DPL II upgrade forthcoming. What's the 1050's life expectancy?

Thanks again!

Outlaw has become a bit more tight-lipped about upcoming products in the last year or so. They have said that they do plan to replace the 1050 with a newer receiver at some point, but it has been a while since they mentioned it in a newsletter (I think it was December 2001, to be exact, although there may have been a more recent comment that I've forgotten about). There will be one eventually, but even if they are near announcing it you'd be looking at several months to start shipping. All I can do is guess, but I'd guess it'll be late this year before the 1050 is replaced, maybe even longer.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

What about someone who is considering the 1050 right now, but only has 5.1, and no plans to go 6.1. Is the 1050 the best choice, or might it be better to go with a similarly-priced 5.1 receiver such as the Sony ES 1? Thanks.

It seems to me that my choice comes down to this in the end:

1) Buy the 1050, and go with the receiver that's been drawing rave reviews (I just discovered Stereophile voted it budget product of the year last year, too), or
2) Go with the Denon, which as far as I know has not been reviewed by anyone, is basically a shot in the dark, and is based on the assumption Denon will put into it the same amount of high quality engineering they put into the 1802.

I actually auditioned the Denon, and I would rate it as probably about average in my opinion. Of course, auditioning the Outlaw is going to be a bit trickier...

Not really. You get to do a 30 day audition, in your room, with your sources and speakers. To me that is the only real way to audition a component. Listening in a store, even in a nice room, leaves too many variables unaccounted for. That is why even when I buy from a B&M I make sure I get, in writing, at least a 2 week audition period at which time I can return it if I do not like it.

OK, just found another "flaw". I read the manual and it seems that the 1050 lacks support for DTS-ES compatibility. I am taking a survey of just what surround formats are in common use on DVDs and VHS. Am I right in thinking DTS is less common than DD, and DTS-ES is even less common?

The 1050 lacks DTS-ES, although if your DVD player has a DTS decoder you can use that decoder to the 6-channel analog input and use the Surround 6.1 processing to generate a surround back channel. That works with any DTS soundtrack, of course. Surround 6.1 isn't the same as DTS-ES discrete (in which the surround back channel is separately encoded), but functions similarly to DTS-ES matrix and Dolby EX.

Dolby Digital is the standard format for DVD, of course, so it is the predominant format. In the last couple of years, DTS has become more common (I probably have a little over 20 discs with DTS soundtracks, out of around 140 titles). DTS-ES is still pretty rare indeed -- I only have a could DTS-ES discs (Gladiator and the extended edition of Fellowship of the Ring).

VHS, of course, is all stereo or Dolby Pro-Logic...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Here's another surround related issue. If I have a DVD player with Dolby Digital & DTS digital outputs, which is a 5.1 signal, how do I get 6.1 channel sound out of my speakers? Does the receiver extract the sixth channel from the 5.1 signal? (I think so, but I'm not sure).

If your DVD player has DD and DTS digital outputs, that means it does not have an onboard DD or DTS decoder -- it passes the digital audio information directly from the DVD to the 1050, which then decodes the signal. The 1050 has a separate bit of processing (developed by a company called Zoran, as I recall) that works similarly to Dolby Pro-Logic to take the left and right surround signals decoded by the 1050 and extract a surround back channel from them. The 1050 can only use the Surround 6.1 mode with Dolby Digital soundtracks (DTS apparently takes too much processing overhead to also use the Surround 6.1 at the same time) or with six-channel analog inputs.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Gonk has the technical part covered, so I'll offer a subjective view. I struggled with very similar issues for quite a while before finally ordering a 1050 a couple of weeks ago. The 1050 works perfectly for my small, simple room, and sounds excellent. I'm very happy with it, and it's NOT going back!

As for DPL2, I have it on another system, and must admit I'm not a big fan of it.

I'm confident I made the right decision by going with the 1050 - probalbly should have done it sooner. Just my .02.

Well, after much more research, I figure I may end up going with the Denon. I finally realized all the reviews of the 1050 were from over 2 years ago. Technology has moved on in that time. Even the original Stereophile review was not the deciding factor I thought it would be. Still, there's hope yet. I may be about to undergo a relocation that may mean the whole HT thing will be on hold for a while. Maybe Outlaw will have a successor to the 1050 with DPL II, DTS ES and "kosher" DD EX by then...