I've had it... so I'm editing all my posts in this thread.

I make a suggestion, which may or may not help some folks improve their 950's performance, and... boom, here comes the glass half empty, negative nebob folks with their criticism. Of course, none of them offer an alternative positive idea.
Once again, no good deed goes unpunished.

I'm done. I'm joining the thread farters. IT'S TIME for me to be a nasty Son of a Bitch too.

[This message has been edited by merc (edited June 30, 2002).]

My question is why anyone would want a cable that distorted the sound? There are more deterministic ways of 'rolling off the treble'.

Charlie

Merc, I am also using all Outlaw cables for interconnects and as most know I am thrilled with the sound of the 950. I have said it before but IMO the Outlaw is not bright, it is neutral. Besides the 950 I own a Rotel 960, Klipsch 10.5's (with matching center/surround) and Swan Diva 2.1's. That pretty much covers the spectrum of warm and bright. In my opinion it would go in this order with warm being a 1 and bright being 10 and neutral being 5.
Klipsch 9 or 10
Outlaw 5 or 6
Diva's 4 or 5
Rotel 2 or 3.

I never thought to change interconnects but I may give it a try if I get enough energy to tear my system apart. Maybe I need to upgrade to give me a reason...

Charlie, that is like asking why somebody would want a warm pre/pro to distort the sound. Some people prefer a warmer sound.

I'm not really questioning that - it just seems that *cables* are an odd candidate for sonicly pleasing equalization. EQ is what we're talking about here. There are a bunch of gizmos out there that allow precise adjustments of 'treble rolloff' and so forth without resorting to what amounts to manually inserting capacitors and inductors in the signal path between components.

Charlie

Charlie, I misunderstood you, I apologize.



I disagree with that. If you look around you will see the cable business is a huge industry. I think a lot of people look to cables for an improved sound.

Without re-starting the old 'magic vs. snake oil' argument let me just say that existence and size of 'the cable industry' says more about marketing and sales than anything else.

To alter sound audibly, a cable must differ enough in electrical properties from a 'zero length' wire to alter the signal transmitted. Since it is trivial to make a wire that does not alter the signal audibly, any wire that sounds different than the trivialy constructed 'straight wire' interconnect is introducing distortion. While it may be a pleasing distortion, it is also dependent on the properties of the devices the are being inter-connected and as such is difficult to predict.

Thus my statement - if one wants EQ, use an EQ/tone/tilt controller.

The Outlaw interconnects seem very nicely made and I would be surprized if any sort of well run listening test (meaning any sort of good blind test) could show a audible change due to them over a second reasonably well made interconnect.

I have heard of interconnects that included 'magic boxes' containing LRC networks. I can see where they would introduce audible distortion in some cases.


Charlie

charlie- I have a queation for you. Have you ever gone to a high end home theater store and listened to the same eqiptment with different interconnections, (i.e. speaker wire, audio RCA's, etc..) ? I personally have been able to do this at some local hi fi stores over the past couple of years, and have noticed quite a bit of difference in the audio performance of a system using one cable over another! Everything in speakers from Martin Logan, Dynaudio, JM Labs, to Energy, Boston, and Def Tech's. Most of these tests were run through KRELL gear. I not only notices sonic differences in different manufactures cables when compaired with one another, I also noticed differences in a single companies product line, and with the difference in price that is just what I would expect.
What I am trying to say is that If you have not gone out and researched this by either going and listening to different cables, or by purchasing different cables and demoing them on your home system, then where is the foundation for your disbelief! If you HAVE done the research and still cannot tell the difference, then you are absolutely welcome to your opinion, as everyone is, and your opinion is well noted! For those of us that are able to discern the differences between interconnections sonics, those are who I believe are the intended people this thread was started for.
One more thing. The intention of creating higher quality cable for high end components is so that there is LESS introduced distortion, escentially making the cables/wires more transparent. Lower grade wires usually introduce MORE distortion, and again some people are capable of detecting this difference, and others are not. From what I have read and learned a cable/wire is never meant to audibly augment the signal passing through it, or act as any type of EQ., as you put it. It's sole job is transfering the signals from one device to another with the very least amount of sonic loss possible, or to theoreticly "get-out-of-the-way" of the components that they tie together.

Jeremy - You're right about what cables are supposed to do. Everything else, except that you thought you heard a difference, is either questionable or false.

Simply stated, the limit to what the human ear can hear is very near to the threshold of pressure caused by Brownian motion in the air. Our ears are amazing equipment. As good as ears are, instrumentation can measure differences that are orders of magnitude smaller.

It is common for anyone to hear, smell, taste etc. differences where they do not exist due to expectation. This is simply part of the human condition and should not be taken as a defect of any kind. Rather it is part of what makes life worthwhile. I can walk outside and be sure this is the prettiest sunset I've ever seen without comparing a library of photos.

In contrast to some more complex items, cable properties are easily measured and quantified. Thus it is trivial to show that a reasonably constructed cable will present for all audible purposes the exact same signal at both ends, therefore being perfectly 'transparent' to the electrons involved. Any audible difference from this is going to be (1) measurable and (2) distortion.

Ever wonder why the agencies with the most to gain (cable manufacturers) are the most reluctant to participate in double blind or ABX cable tests? If their claims are true, they could prove it scientifically and reap the windfall. But they, to an man, steadfastly oppose any sort of repeatable blind tests. Why is that I wonder?

The have started their own religion and are busy reaping tithes from the faithful.


Charlie

Simple question - explain how it can 'sound warmer' and 'roll off the treble' while at the same time not changing the signal.


Charlie