If it's that obvious that anyone with ears can tell the difference, how come they can no longer reliably tell the difference when the other cues to the cable change are removed, like seeing it happen? If it were that easy, there would be tons, tons of evidence from the cable people about the sonic differences.

To flip the coin, if you have yourself convinced that the cables sound different than bundled cables, I bet that someone could take Bose drivers, repackage them into an exotic looking package, and convince you that they were incredible!

I've had it... so I'm editing all my posts in this thread.

I make a suggestion, which may or may not help some folks improve their 950's performance, and... boom, here comes the glass half empty, negative nebob folks with their criticism. Of course, none of them offer an alternative positive idea.
Once again, no good deed goes unpunished.

I'm done. I'm joining the thread farters. IT'S TIME for me to be a nasty Son of a Bitch too.

[This message has been edited by merc (edited June 30, 2002).]

Well, I never got a chance to audition the 950 (they stopped shipping before they got to my name on the reservation list). But I can tell you that I'm using the 1066 with the Outlaw PCA interconnects, an Outlaw 770 amp, and Axiom speakers. This setup is most definitely not dark IMHO; I would consider it neutral or just slightly warmer than neutral, and I'm very happy with the sound.

I really think that the idea that all the claims of brightness on the 950 can be brushed off as an 'interconnect issue' seems a bit far-fetched IMHO. From what I can recall, 5 out of 7 people who auditioned both preferred the sound of the 1066. I really don't think interconnects were the deciding issue.

My intent is not to bash the 950; for people who are happy with it that's great. I probably would have bought one if they hadn't stopped shipping when they did. But still, for people who think the 950 is too bright/harsh I really doubt that changing interconnects is going to make a real difference.

Jeff


[This message has been edited by JKohn (edited June 30, 2002).]

I've had it... so I'm editing all my posts in this thread.

I make a suggestion, which may or may not help some folks improve their 950's performance, and... boom, here comes the glass half empty, negative nebob folks with their criticism. Of course, none of them offer an alternative positive idea.
Once again, no good deed goes unpunished.

I'm done. I'm joining the thread farters. IT'S TIME for me to be a nasty Son of a Bitch too.

[This message has been edited by merc (edited June 30, 2002).]

I've had it... so I'm editing all my posts in this thread.

I make a suggestion, which may or may not help some folks improve their 950's performance, and... boom, here comes the glass half empty, negative nebob folks with their criticism. Of course, none of them offer an alternative positive idea.
Once again, no good deed goes unpunished.

I'm done. I'm joining the thread farters. IT'S TIME for me to be a nasty Son of a Bitch too.

[This message has been edited by merc (edited June 30, 2002).]

Disregard my earlier comments if you saw them. I've already decided on my processor and my intent is to stay away from the comparison discussions. I just got sucked into this one there for a second.

You were not the only one to use the outlaw cables. What were your 20 seconds of material?

dropping out of this thread again
brianca

[This message has been edited by brianca (edited June 30, 2002).]

Yup, me too. I tried to delete this thread in its' entirety, but unlike AVS, only the admin can delete threads.

I'm just sick and tired of trying to help folks. No comment or suggestion ever goes unchallenged and I just have no incentive to prove ANY statement I make to ANYONE. If anyone wants me to substantiate my comments from now on, the cost is $5. My PayPal ID is govtdog@msn.com . Free positive and possibly helpful suggestions are just not appreciated anymore on the forums. From now on, I'm just gonna have fun being the devil's advocate like, seemingly, the majority of folks who post on the forums... and maybe make a Lincoln or two along the way.

[This message has been edited by merc (edited June 30, 2002).]

Merc,

Here are a couple of simple ways to prove to yourself whether you can really hear a difference, or not. In both cases,
you must make sure you are NOT aware of which cable is which. These aren't really scientific/statistically significant tests, but do try:

1) Simple attempt. Have someone hook your CD player to the 950. For one channel, use the Outlaw. For the other channel use a no-name, or bundled cable. Listen to soem straight, analog-bypass stereo music. If the Outlaw has different sonics, this should destroy imaging. One channel should stand out as different. You will no longer get a clean central image of common information that should come from the middle, like lead vocals. Repeat a few times with different CDs, cables swapped around, and with the same cable for both channels sometimes. See if you can reliably (better than random chance) tell which channel is which, and when the mis-matched pairs are in use.

2) Harder, more valid test: use a good CD player that happens to have 2 sets of outputs. Have someone besides you hook up both outputs to separate inputs on the 950. Again, make sure you have no clues as to which is which. Play a CD, switch back and forth, see if you can identify the outlaw channel. Repeat several times with cable swaps and different CDs. Note -- cable swaps should be random, sometimes switched, sometimes not, as long as there is no pattern that you know about.

In both tests, by random chance, you should be right about half the time. If there are true differences, you should be correct nearly 100% of the time. If you are almost always right, someone needs to set up a controlled test, because you have a first -- a remarkable cable with different sonic characteristics that might be provable scientifically.

Note that because of the nature of statistics, even if you are right 100% of the time, it doesn't totally prove that it is correct. Statistics merely says to some high degree of probability (easy calculatable) that you are correct. Likewise, if you can't predict them with high accuracy, statistics doesn't rule out that they are different, simply says it is unlikely that there are audible differences.

Although neither of these is really a scientific test, please try -- let us know the outcome.

Sorry if you feel offended by the posts in this thread. You posted some advice, others posted other advice. What's so damned bad about that? You believe the cables are different, others don't. That's the whole point of boards like this!! You seem mad that we don't offer any "positive alternatives". Here's the positive alternative: you don't need expensive cables, because cheapo bundled cables sound the same. Save your money for other things! People oughtta be happy that they can ignore cables as a $$$ sink as use the money elsewhere where it is well KNOWN to help!


[This message has been edited by bigmac (edited June 30, 2002).]

Actually it is now close to 50/50 (5 out of 9) with Jeff, Dusty, Merc, and Bruce all preferring the 950 over the Rotel, but who's counting? Actually I can't remember the 9th person after Brianca, Mark, BigJeff, and Erik who also did the comparison.
Merc, I wish you would re-edit just your first post so at least the people who want your opinion can have it without having to pay 5 bucks for it


[This message has been edited by Jed M (edited June 30, 2002).]

But!!You got to have FAITH!!!!