I thought I read somewhere that the 192 dacs offer higher bandwidth for signal processing, creating a better sound than chips with less headroom even for lower bandwidth inputs.

Any truth to this, or was I on glue?

Start with more precision, your end result will be more precise. Think of it this way: You're going to do a series of steps on a number, all using floating-point math of very-high detail. Would you rather start with your initial sample only accurate to one decimal point (4.5) or four (4.4511). With a series of steps, the final result could be very different in the two cases. Whether the difference is really audible or not is a totally different question!

[This message has been edited by bigmac (edited June 11, 2002).]

That's an interesting question... at what precision does the 950 process signals internally?

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Just visited HDCD website. It's an extra 4 bits of resolution. Will make all digital recordings sound better even if you don't have the hdcd chip. Even better with the chip. Evidently most recording studios use this technology for all the stuff they mix - even stuff not designated hdcd and it's supposed to improve the sound. I doubt one could hear it on regular equipment.
The Rotel has the chip...therefore all digital recordings should sound better. It's used even though the light isn't on. On an hdcd cd the light should light up.
BTW - the best recordings I ever heard are from Professor Johnson's recording lab. He uses all tube 2 channel equip and the sound is beautiful even on not so great equipment. This was a few years ago so I don't know where they are available but if you can get your hands on one check it out.

The Outlaw 950 definitely will accept 24bit/96kHz PCM. My Pioneer DV-47A outputs two channel 24/96 through its SPDIF on DVD-Audio discs and the 950 sounds quite good on this material. This is what I use when I don't want to listen to DVD-A's in multichannel.

True to a point, but what you're talking about is sample size (bits) not sample frequency. IIRC the 950 processes everything at 24/96 or below so it seems like the 192kHz capability would be mostly just bragging rights.

Most pre/pros that divulge any info at all claim to do all math (processing) as at least 24 bit quantities internally to prevent rounding errors from being audible.


Charlie

>>> IIRC the 950 processes everything at 24/96 or below

Just asking, but do we know this? I suppose we could look up the part number of the Cirrus/Crystal DSP chip that's used, and maybe they'd say.

I don't know enough, but even if the
[Added:] Sort of like oversampling in the old days.

But now that I think about it, maybe more than 24/96 processing capability doesn't get you much anyway. The max rate digital signal you can input is 24/96. And if your inputting an analog signal, you're stuck with either the 24/48 ADCs the Outlaw has, or just keep it straight analog. Anyways...



[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited June 11, 2002).]

Nope... still, who the hell cares??? Those that may care have already been afixed on that blue light that emanates from that other pre/pro faceplate.

Just admit it and move on to paying me for my Naïveté...




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Take Care,
merc

Just a few theories about how it could be better. If they sample at 192KHz, even on a 96KHz signal, you are still sampling the same level twice. This can give some error detection to reduce jitter, ie if you get a 1 and a 0 for the same level, it can probably be corrected based on the bits around it. If the manufacturer was bold enough, they could interpolate between the two samples to create a more smooth transition. This would allow the use of cheaper and lower order output filters which tend to mangle the phase less than higher output filters required to smooth more jagged or stepped signals. I would think the 192KHz DAC COULD sound better if the manufacturer actually used them and didn't just throw 192KHz DACs on to put it on the spec sheet.

Ah - that would be the ADC, not the DAC.

IIRC the ADC on the Outlaw 950 tops out at either 48 or 96 kHz (which is plenty - Nyquist and all) by 24 bits deep.

I suppose one could use the DAC bandwidth for some sort of noise shaping or dithering or ..., but if this was the case I would imagine marketing would have told us about it. I suspect the difference in cost was tiny and the device fit the same socket.


Charlie