I like the 1050 and the 950 looks nice, but there are so many tiny things broken I'm not sure I can live with it. At some point the tiny flaws mar the overall finish, so to speak. I saw someone else refer to it as death by 1000 paper cuts.

OTOH it is the low cost option, so it stays in the running on that basis, as long as I find no 'deal breaker' problems.

I'm not here to abuse the faithful - just a guy looking for the right equipment.


Charlie


BTW - Convenience is no excuse for obscurity. No matter why it's there, it's very 'Outlaw-esque' and still broken. Looks exactly like something designed by an engineer ('it's perfectly clear to me - everyone will see it') rather than a product manager/marketing person. I can say that since I are one (software engineer).

[This message has been edited by charlie (edited June 10, 2002).]

Actually Charlie, I don't understand the confusion. Maybe you could explain why having a global adjustment makes the 950 broken? In regards to the Rotel, it is broken because it only has five digital inputs. Do you happen to have any information when this problem will be fixed? I understand if it was a poor choice of wording and like Gonk said, you won't be alone in feeling that these omissions you refer to are worth the extra money spent. Good luck with your decision, I am sure you will be very happy either way.

[This message has been edited by Jed M (edited June 10, 2002).]

I hate to sound like a stuck record (or whatever the digital equiv is) but here we go one last time:

Putting a global adjustment in a per input menu is counter-intuitive. Counter-intuitiveness in a GUI is a bad thing. Thus the menu is 'broken' in that it has unaddressed defects. Believe me, I understand how unaddressed defects can happen, but it doesn't make it less broken.

Is it a fatal, horrible flaw? Nope. could it have been fixed easily? Probably. So the fact it was passed into production means (1) QA was rushed (2) engineers got to veto the bug report (3) ???

This kind of thing is what I mean by 'lack of polish' and seems endemic to Outlaw products. They are solid. They deliver the goods. They cost less. They are also a bit rough about the edges.


Charlie

adcom has 3 models 750/760/830

parasound has avc2500u

and marantz has av-9000

i think nad may have one in the sub 2k range

It sounds like Charlie considers it broken not because it *IS* a global setting (that is obviously a feature set choice) but because it is presented in the menus as a per-input setting when in fact it is not.

------------------
Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Exactly. Thank you Matt.

FWIW they could completely eliminate the settings in question (bass and treble) and I'd never notice, so it's not that they're global at all, and it's not that the feature is done badly, it's simply a bad UI that I find very exemplary of Outlaw products in general. Solid. Low dollar. Good performance. A bit rough. Actually fits their branding - maybe it's intentional.

As for the other options noted - I've looked over the Adcom 830 and it looks a bit light on connectivity but if the price were low enough and it is well regarded I might consider it. Anyone care to weigh in on Adcom in general and the 830 in particular?


Charlie

I don't think there is much debate here, just choices. If you are willing to live will all the surround modes, clean sound, and minimum frills, you can save a lot and buy the 950. If you want (arguably) better looks, more niceties (on the fly trim controls, bering able to turn off the OSD, discrete remote codes available), some upgradeability, and name recongition, you can spend $400-$500 more and buy the Rotel. Will it sound better? Maybe, maybe not. The decision should be more for the above reasons.

The Anthem sounds like a great piece, including higher-end features like balanced outputs. But it is significantly more money. For the price of the Anthem you could get a 950 and a 1066.

I can't decide which way to go myself. For the same price I would choose the Rotel in a heartbeat. But to maximize my system's sound, the extra money would be better spent elsewhere. Also my nearest Rotel dealer is far away, so convenience definitely favors Outlaw.

The Anthem is nice, but it seems to do way more than I need. The Outlaw is a bit quirky and omits at least one feature I would like to have. In the defense of hte 950 it has many nifty things (triple xover, 80 analog on 5.1 inputs) but those are features I'll never use.

I'm not sure I could hear a difference between the 950 and the 1066, and I'm just cynical by nature when sighted listening produces this sort of result. If a person can ID the 950 vs the 1066 in a proper blind test I'd be very interested in seeing the experiment duplicated.

So the Rotel looks better and better due to just plain being a good fit to my requirements.

But I'm not going to blow this sort of $$$ without a lot of research.


Charlie

Charlie, I think I understand what you mean now. In all honesty I would have gone with the 1066 had it not been for the simple fact that I like a very detailed sound when it comes to HT. For music that is different but I figured I could add a warm cd player and get closer to what I want. Other than that little thing I would have went the Rotel route based on options, and in my opinion, looks. Also I am assuming I could get it for 1350 or less. If you prefer a warm sound for HT I think you would be making a mistake not to seriously consider the Rotel. If you are like me and enjoy warm music, take the extra money saved and get a modified Sony SACD player and then you will have the best of both worlds. I really think this "better value" thing is subjective to what each person believes they need.

In my honest opinion, since I have not compared the two, I believe the warm/bright issue is being taken too far. I think ultimately very few of us could pick one from the other in a blind test. I really believe its paying extra for the extra features, and that's the decision.

RW- None of those pre/pros you listed include DD EX, DTS-ES, or DPL II.

Besides, from that list, your forgot the Sony TA-E9000ES, the Rotel RSP-985, and the Acurus ACT-3...