I currently use a 1050 but I'm looking into pre/pro units less than $2000, and while the 950 is in the running I'm far from sold. The Rotel 1066 looks very nice. Any other worthy contenders?

Charlie

In my opinion, there is a distinct lack of competition in the $1000 - $2500 range for pre/pros with DD EX/DTS-ES/DPL II.

There's only the Outlaw and Rotel as far as I know.

I keep waiting for any of the major Japanese manufacturers to put something out... (Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Sony, Pioneer, etc.)

I also looked at the Rotel. But for me, the Outlaw is a better deal. Fixed analog 80 Hz crossover on the analog 5.1 inputs (Rotel has no crossover option on the 5.1 input), and theoretically better DACs (Outlaw has 24/192's, Rotel has 24/96's.) One more thing I don't personally like about the Rotel, is that you *have* to hook it up to your display. It requires OSD to program it. Can't do it just from the display on the unit.


[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited June 09, 2002).]

It's been a while since I set it up, but I think it's still pretty accurate -- check out this pre/pro chart I cooked up a while back. Kevin's pretty much hit it that there's not much out there in the under-$2000 range except the Model 950 and Rotel's 1066. Adcom's got a pre/pro in that price range, but it's been out for a while and is lacking some of the features of newer units. The $2000-$3000 range gets you into the territory of the Ref 30, AVM20, and the like -- and in that range, the AVM20 is probably the most popular.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I saw an AVM-20 go for $2300-$2400 on eBay IIRC. The $2000 isn't a hard limit if the reason to go above were compelling enough.

So - is the AVM-20 a good buy at $2500?

Charlie

From what I've heard, it's a very nice pre/pro. There's supposed to be an upgrade to Pro Logic II due out some time this year, but it will cost some (couple hundred? I'm not sure if the upgrade price has been established). If your budget allows, it would definitely need to be on your list to audition.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I spoke with an Anthem rep last week. They have received the new chips and the upgrade (THX Ultra2, DPL II) should be available in about 4 weeks for $300 (retail).

Mike

I just went through the user manuals for the Rotel 1066, Outlaw 950 and Anthem AVM-20 and I'm sorry to say the Outlaw (assuming the PDF is accurate) isn't faring well.

It seems to follow Outlaw tradition set by the 1050 of providing the needed functionality at a great price point with a price paid in 'polish' for lack of better term. There are things in the 950 menus that hint at great ideas that were later half thrown out and some simple things that the competitors include that are simply not there.

For instance, on page 24 this note:



OK - so why have them in this menu? This kind of thing hints at either poor planning or (more likely) a more ambitious feature set that was trimmed at the last minute. This happens, but the trimming should be more complete and should include killing the menu items along with the feature.

Things that would be easy to do and are absent include:

- User labels for inputs.
- Per mode trim adjustments.
- Volitle trim adjustments that re-zero with input change or power off.
- Distinct delay adjustments, at least to the extent of settings for surrounds vs. rears.

I'm wondering how much of this is fixable via firmware and how much is set in stone.

Charlie

Sorry Charlie but it I don't think it should be termed "fixable" because it ain't broke. If you feel the tweakable options and a machine that runs around 100 degrees and lacks detail is worth 400 dollars more than that is up to you. Just don't hang around waiting for Outlaw to "fix the problems".

OK - I can see you're emotionally attached here, but can you rationally explain why a global adjustment being presented on a per input menu is not broken?

How adding labels would compromise the sonic quality?

etc.?


Charlie


[This message has been edited by charlie (edited June 10, 2002).]

In a way, Jed's right. I think as far as the features we're talking about here, the 950 is "done." You will certainly not be alone if you decide that the design is too limiting for your needs and move on to a 1066 or an AVM20. Others have already done the same, and will continue to do so. It's largely an issue of personal need. The 950 is similar to the 1050 in concept -- just the essentials, with a nice low price. Like you, charlie, I saw the input menu layout (back during the beta test, actualy) and wondered about input-specific settings. I don't know if the layout is the result of a reduction in feature set or simply a layout that made full use of the number of lines available -- if it's the latter (which is what I've suspected is the case), it adds some convenience but does lead to the confusion that you noted. As for the trim options, there was so much debate about the 950's speaker trim options at the end of the beta period and early in the shipping process that I suspect Outlaw would have made changes if they felt it was reasonable/feasible to do so. (And from some of the info available on why the speaker distance settings are the way they are, I suspect things like additional trim control are likely not an option because of hardware issues.) Lastly, I'd love user-defined labels for inputs too, but I don't think we'll see them on the 950.

Anyway, keep us informed on your pre/pro search -- it's a hot topic these days, and I'd be very interested to know which way you end up going.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review