Back a few months ago the 1066 did have a noise floor problem that resulted in a hiss. Rotel stopped selling the 1066s so they could correct the problem. I haven't heard of any 1066s with hiss problem since then.

Just to be fair to the 950, I should say that Rotel did have a QA problem.

[This message has been edited by Legairre (edited June 02, 2002).]

The posts on this thread have been very interesting and informative to me - and as a result I am asking for help.

My family and I have watched a lot of movies at home (and very few in the cinema) for a number of years. After moving to DVD about 18 months ago - the timing driven by the belated availability of DVD titles - the performance upgrade is so startling that we have decided to upgrade from a 32" TV to a rear projection (Toshiba 65 inch). As a result, and also as a result of moving house with a more home-theater-friendly room available (i.e. larger: 22 x 25 with an 18-foot ceiling), I have decided to take the plunge and move from using my standard two-channel stereo to adding speakers etc. and accessing the Dolby / DTS / whatever capability of the DVDs.

Having always been a "components" chap - I gather the word today is "separates" - no other approach interests me. When I started gathering information about nine months ago, I was disappointed to see that there was very little available in the way of components unless one had a virtually unlimited budget (I don't - we established a saving plan and a defined budget for our upgrade, and have nearly completed it). I investigated the Adcoms - they appear to me to be over-priced junk with fundamental flaws such as highly audible hum and hiss. Marantz had a home theater pre-amp (I think it has been discontinued) which, although a bit better, also clearly did not meet my quality criteria. In fact, I was so disappointed by the available price/quality ratios that I put the whole upgrade project on hold (upside: by lengthening the savings period, the budget has been modestly increased). The then-available model from Rotel was better quality but, in my own opinion, poor value and a budget-stretcher at $1600 list / $1400 street. (By the way, so much, if I may say so, for the oft-stated view that one gets "more for less" in AV equipment as time goes on.)

I became aware of Outlaw through the Web and, combined with the appearance of a both better and cheaper (compared to prior Rotel offering) Rotel unit, have brought my upgrade program to, well at least the mid burner and hopefully soon the front burner. I have no desire to spend another $400 or so just to get a brand name, but on the other hand the price difference is small enough that I want to get the better, in terms of quality, of the two units: while I may upgrade other components down the line, I would expect 15 - 20 years' service out of the pre-amp / control unit.

Given my overall time frame, it really isn't a problem if I have to wait, say two months for a 950 should I choose that route.

While I know the Outlaw people will take the unit back if I'm not satisfied, no local Rotel dealer will do the same. So the ultimate test - an in-home comparison - simply and very unfortunately is not an option.

In that situation, I would like to make some observations and would greatly appreciate feedback:

1. Although my 30 years' experience with audio equipment is that pre-amps (unlike amps, or especially playback units with moving parts) will either fail under warranty or last indefinitely, I'm still concerned about the longevity of the Outlaw company's support / service. Thoughts?

2. A couple of months is OK. Based on the posts, I'm wondering if the reality is more like six months, which is NOT OK. Opinion? Is the backlog shrinking, stable, or growing?

3. A consistent theme of all the posts / reviews / etc. appears to me to be that quality control in the manufacturing of the 950 is a major problem; like American cars, the unit I actually receive could be a crap-shoot as a function of manufacturing not design. If true, this is not a product that I would want to buy. Am I being unfair to Outlaw in this regard?

4. In all of my audio purchases, I have always tried to buy the most "accurate" equipment I can afford. This word certainly has subjective elements and may even be "charged". To me, it means in particular that the equipment makes a trained human voice, from a high-quality recording, sound nearly identical to the "live" sound. For example, one of my references for auditioning speakers is "Tom's Diner" by Suzanne Vega. It also means absolutely tight bass without any boominess or exaggeration. (For reference, my musical tastes are eclectic but do not include heavy metal or "heavy" rock and roll). The posts clearly indicate that there is a sonic difference between the 950 and the Rotel, but - as even the posts themselves have acknowledged - one man's "accuracy" may - or may not - be another man's "harshness" or "brightness". Could we possibly pursue this dicussion theme further? It might (or might not) help for me to say that after an exhaustive search last year, I chose Linn Ninca speakers to upgrade my 16-year-old Cantons and, as an example, found the B&W to be a bit harsh but found Thiels to be far too warm and colored.

5. I've auditioned many home theater set-ups, and to my personal ear, all of them have been sub-par in reproducing conventional stereo recordings. Music will continue to be most of my "critical" listening, and my home situation does not allow the luxury of separate rooms / systems for home theater and music. My third-party and no doubt inadequately-informed view of the posts that laud the 950 in this regard is that all things are relative: when I read about the systems these individuals were using previously, to say that the 950 offers great stereo music sound is perhaps relative only. In this regard, good news bad news so to speak. I plan to continue to use my existing pre-amp for music. Its specs are an order of magnitude compared with either the Rotel or the 950 in terms of THD, IM, and frequency response, and while specs are one thing and listening is another, from my auditioning I believe its transparency is unmatched by sub-$2500 home theater equipment (maybe higher; I don't believe in auditioning equipment that is far beyond my budget, becuase it leaves me disappointed with what I can actually afford even though that too may be very good). Also, while perhaps just an "old fogey" in this regard, 99% of my CDs and discs were intended for conventional stereo play-back, and my auditions of multi-channel systems left me unimpressed in terms of music. SO: I really am only looking at the home theater capabilities of the 950 and the Rotel.

Other comments: (a) I couldn't care less about the tuner in the 950, I will continue to use my MacIntosh tube tuner connected to a rooftop antenna. But it occurs to me that Rotel, by not even including a tuner, is focusing more directly on my own needs. (b) The ergonomics of the remote are not very important to me. I will either learn to master it, or replace it with an aftermarket product. (c) Quality of control knobs and switches is a concern. Its not just a matter of whether or not you like the feel; from the posts on the 950 controls, I have to wonder how long they will last (bear in mind that my current pre-amp is 18 years old, therefore has no remote, and the [very high quality] controls have had to endure thousands of actions).

Current equipment:

Crown Straight Line Two pre-amp (audio only, no video capability)
2 x Crown DC300 amps (190 watts RMS / channel), 1 is currently not in use but excellent condition (was used for bi-amping during my "wild and crazy" years)
MacIntosh MR71 tube tuner
Denon DP-3000 direct drive turntable with SME Type III-Improved silicon-damped tone-arm
Samsung Model 711 DVD/CD player (I hate changers)
Panasonic PV-4660 VCR (used only for occasionally re-playing VCRs from our modest tape library, and occasionally taping NFL games)
Linn Ninka floor-standing main speakers

In the first upgrade phase, I will add a Linn center speaker and a good-quality active sub-woofer. Rear speakers will have to wait a year or so for budget recovery.

Gentlemen, your thoughts / suggestions?

In all fairness, brightness can be looked at as harsh or detailed, and warm can be looked at as smooth or muddled. Here is a good example of where warm systems can't get the detail: Listen to a piece with high piano notes and a bright system will have a shrill crisp sound, which some will claim is harsh but if anyone has ever played a piano they will attest to the fact that the higher keys are indeed a bit on the edgy side when struck. This can also be stated as RAF said, very revealing of the source. A warm system will smooth over the edge part, but that also means, whether the sound improves is subjective, a warm system lacks as much detail as a bright system. The other side argues, Who cares? I can't enjoy music when my ears are bleeding. So it goes both ways. For home theater I will never get rid of my Klipsch because I believe that detail and accuracy are the most important part of recreating surround sound. For music I actually prefer a warm sound because it is less fatiguing and richer, and I have Diva's for that. I just thought I should help people who are getting the idea that warm is considered ultimately better. Its a personal choice and one person's harsh or muddled is another person's detailed or smooth. I am not questioning anybody's opinion on what they believe sounds harsh, I am only trying to show the other side of the coin.

Anyone care to count how many run on and fragmented sentences I just used? Its too late to care.

[This message has been edited by Jed M (edited June 03, 2002).]

Good post Jed and I complete agree.

I still am clueless on which way to go.

I have a DC-1 that I'm selling. I'm using the money to buy a 950 or a 1066. Now being used to Lexicon and Presets for every format and sound quality.


Which unit is going to yield a result overall better than that of a DC-1.


I'm selling the unit because it is a bit outdated and I want more processing power.

Now I'm leaning towards The Rotel because you can have custom settings, but like sounds in movies to be a bit bright.

So all in all which direction should I go? Also what is going to beat a DC-1 and Dc-2?

Or am I better to cancel my sale of the DC-1?

man oh man, the Silver Rotel RSP-1066 that I picked up last sat was dead, it wouldn't turn on, the only sound it is making is the relay clicking noise when I turn off the machine. Luckily, I got it from a Rotel dealer that is only 20mins away from, I think it is the same dealer that Legairre from here got his. I am using the store display unit (black) right now, which has the older software and no DD ex logo. So far, I am very happy with the sound, I upgraded from a lexicon Cp-3+ to this, which I traded in and got close to nothing for it. I hope the store will get their new shipment in soon.

PS: I think the store still has an open blackone in stock that allegedly someone brought it but returned it and got the Krell pre/pro instead. Should I get this black one instead and forget about the silver one?

If anyone wants to sell their 1066 or trade for a 950+cash then let me know. Email to powerserge1@Juno.com.

Regarding the brightness of the 950, like i mentionned the 950 is not bright but just a little edgy. My ATI 1502 amp and Monitor Audio Silver speakers combine for a very revealing combo and when you throw the 950 into the mix, MUSIC playback takes on an edgy side. This is why in my system i would prefer the Rotel.

Vise versa, if someone has a nice smooth layed back amp/speakers then i guarantee the 950 is a keeper for a system such as this. Rather than an "edgy" or "bright" end result then as RAF mentionned you will have well balanced, non fatiguing accurate sound.

[This message has been edited by power (edited June 03, 2002).]

Richard, as long as you can use the dealers 1066 I would wait for the color you want. No reason to compromise your preference of the silver 1066 just to get DD EX a few weeks early, or at least that's my opinion.

Richard,
Sorry to hear about your 1066. If you got yours in Northhampton(not sure if I'm allowed to mention names here) then we did get ours from the same dealer. I'm happy to say mine works fine, but I sorry to hear about yours.

If I were you I'd wait for the color I want.

Let's see...Rotel had a hiss problem, stopped selling it to fix it but Outlaw continues to ship???? knowing there's a hiss problem??
Are people making too much of this bright/warm thing. Is there really that great a difference between these two pieces of equipment??other than the cost.