Dzung Pham:
I believe they were set up with the test tones from the 1066, not any special calibration disk.

Jed M:
I don't have the Rotel in my possesion so I can't do it the other way around. I could tell that the center was blatently out of place.

Side note: When I first got the 950 and set it in my system (aside from this test about 30 days ago) I had to tone down the center. With the SPL meter it was in the neighborhood of 4DB higher than that of the fronts, everything was set on the 950 at 0db.

To answer your question how I determined it was the 950 an not the other way around. I could hear the center out of place on the 950. If I remember correctly the Rotel was like +1 for the center, +2 for the right and +3 for the left. Thats the numbers I would expect from the 950 as well. That wasn't the case with the 950, even at home my fronts are about the same as the system we used, but my center at home had to toned down to like -3db. There was cohesion between fronts and the center on the 1066. Effects rolled left to right and front to back smoothly on the 1066. The 950 it was like left--center--right, front----back, where your transitions were choppy. Not terrible, but noticable. All three of us noticed. Now, I am sure I could have toned down the center by dropping it 4db, but in reality they *should* be even. Now hypothetically speaking if the 950 is giving odd volatages out that don't match each other, you could SPL each channel and probably do away with problem number 1. Which I have already done in my system, it looks like others have done it as well.

Since I do have access to a Ref 30. (I'll drag my brother over and his B&K in tow) I could then have a day of testing versus only a couple hours.

Jeff

Jeff,

You own the 950, right? Do you notice the same issues in your set-up at home once you calibrate it?

brianca..

Really? Why? Is your center speaker identical to the fronts? Is it on the same plane or is it higher or lower? What is it on or around? "Dropping it 4dB..." is why the ability to trim levels is provided- is it not? The Rotel unit is not the Outlaw unit. I still think you have to perform calibrations on both units when installed in the system. What is right (settings) for one won't necessarily be right for the other. I believe you have proved this to be so.

Jeff I agree with Steve,if you did not perform any calibration on the 950,then your statements are inconclusive,you see if your front channels are off by 3 or 4 DB's your soundstage from front to back is not going to be seamless,will sound like ping-pong,Wich i believe you accurately discribe.No fair game!!Your center channel obviously was out of balance by as much as 4 db"s by your own admission.I am waiting to see the results on your comparison to the B&K equipment.Good Luck.

Jeff I would agree with the other posts, there is nothing wrong with the 950. You need to calibrate each system you have. In this case, as you have proven, one size does not fit all.

Well a little more testing on the home system front..

Here is the setup:

950
Nakamichi PA-7 Stasis powering
Carver AL-III+'s for fronts.
Outlaw 750 powering
Boston 920 Center and a pair of
Ohm F's for my rear.
(I guess I have a heart for really inefficient speakers.. LOL One of these days I might go out and get a timber matched, efficient 5.1 setup... I'd hate to give up the carver ribbons though )
DVP-NS700P DVD hooked up via Optical cable

The 950 SPL calibrated to the 950's test tones. Same pod racer scene again. Room size was different though. 15 x 15 this time instead the larger room we used for the test. Issues one and two were pretty much resolved. ALTHOUGH, when calibrated there was still an issue with the center being off. Not by much but it was still off. 99% improvement all the way around. Transitions were greatly improved. So yes, the problems seemed to be unit settings (which I thought they might be). I still have some center issues which I will get calling Outlaw about on Monday.

Which brings me to my next point. Here is what I find ODD. Why are the output voltages seemingly WAY OFF between the 1066 and the 950? They SHOULD be set up to some type of standards regardless of Unit or Maker. I had to do quite a signigicant drop of DB to get the 950 to even out across the fronts and center. (BRIANCA: Did you see the same in your comparision? How much different are your calibrations between units?) And if the output voltages are off why arn't they off EVEN?? You would figure the 950 would sound louder or softer due to different voltages, why then is it semingly varied over all 5 channels, particularly the center channel which seems to be off the most.

With these issues in the bag and pretty much solved, I might still send the unit back or sell it due to the 950's POOR human interface. (This observation is completely mine, not nesessarily anyone elses) I guess I really have a pet peeve about those damn buttons and knob. Is 950 everything its cracked up to be, outside of minor issues. YEAH. Is it worth the $899 and shipping. Double YEAH. Probably the best bang for your buck pre/pro going. Just my humble opinion.. I still am planning on the Ref 30 Comparison on Sunday.

Jeff

I didn't make any comparison between the settings on the two when calibrated. I'll take a look at them when I switch back to the 1066 tonight.


brianca

Ok, My 2 cents worth.
You've just discovered an audio truth: All systems/components need individual calibration. Even between channels on the same amplifier you're going to find voltage differences between channels. Electronics manufacturing is far from an exact science. The distances, resistances, capacitances, etc. are going to have variations in different signal paths within a piece of gear, let alone two separate pieces of gear. Then you add even more organic materials into the mix (i.e. speakers-wood, fiberglass, etc.) and your differences become even more pronounced and measurable. Of course your speakers are going to have different sensitivities. You are using very different speakers for every position! (By the way, I love the Carver ribbons. There's rumor that BC is going to design more.) The center speaker is of completely different design than your fronts. I would have been extremely surprised if they had measured the same.
Bottom line: All systems sound better when completely calibrated and dialed-in. And they all measure and respond differently.
Big Shock!
Mix.

A point of information:

For those who are reading this thread and who have never "touched" a 950 - I completely disagree with those who say the buttons and knob on the 950 are terrible. I realize that this can be considered a subjective thing, but I just don't understand why the knobs and buttons are taking such a severe beating. I, for one, don't find a thing wrong with the knobs and the rubberized volume control is actually kind of nice.

After all this talk I took the time to compare the knobs and buttons with my other equipment, which includes some very nice pieces from a build standpoint and the Outlaw, in my opinion, fits in very nicely in build quality.

Also, in the real world I've maybe used the buttons and knobs on the 950 maybe 3 or 4 times (and I've had one for four months now) so even if these were crappy (and they are not!) it wouldn't really matter to me. I'm not trying to justify the importance or non-importance of quality knobs based on remote usage - it's just that I honestly do not agree with all this knob bashing since my unit (now a production unit) has perfectly good hardware.

------------------
RAF

My HT (latest update 04/17/02) Now includes Outlaw 950 and Outlaw 755

[This message has been edited by Robert A Fowkes (edited June 01, 2002).]

RAF:
I am glad you wrote your opinion on the 950 buttons and knob... It gives people two sides of view.

I may completely disagree with you on this, but its good to know that the buttons and knobs don't have an effect on others.

Unfortunately they effect me. Here are my pet peeves with the buttons and knobs. The buttons wiggle. I can almost make a button press pushing on them sideways. They feel cheap to me as a result. At least my Audiotrons buttons, which are similar are rubber coated and press firmly. The knob is what I dislike most. I use the volume knob quite often. This rubberized monstrosity is a hunk of garbage IMHO. It lacks any "feel" to it. There is no weight to it. It feels hollow and has little resistance. I don't mind the rubbery part, just the knobs feel. Even my 500 buck Sony receiver 5 years ago had a WAY better volume control knob. Compared to the 1066 or the REF 30, it doesn't hold water.

Just my observations.
Jeff