I love the way my 950 sounds, but I do think that the Outlaws seriously dropped the ball on a number of "usability" issues. For one, it should be able to store separate configuration profiles for each input... It is extremely annoying to have to change the volume level when switching from TV to TUNER, or to have to change the sub trim all the time. It would also be nice to be able to set some additional settings per decoding mode, for example have the volume automatically lower by 4dB when going from DD to DTS. These things don't sound terribly "hard" to me; they got the really hard stuff right (the way it sounds) and missed on the easy stuff.

Additionally, any piece of equipment this complex should have discrete IR codes out the wazoo. For all the things they never anticipated you'd want to do, there are always learning remotes to fix the problem, if the discrete codes are there. I simply cannot fathom why there wouldn't be codes for switching surround modes or setting individual speaker trims (if indeed this is the case; I don't have any firsthand knowlege of this).

I hope they do a lot of thinking about this kind of stuff before they release their next pre/pro. Again, I love the way mine sounds, but I find myself spending way too much time futzing with the remote and navigating the OSD menus.

------------------
Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Matthew, I couldn't have said it better. I think they left out the last 5% that would have really made this unit special.

Even though this might be nice, I find that I will most likely make changes in the volume level anyway, regardless of where the preset level would be set. For example, levels can vary greatly within the various sources such as TV with big volume differences between stations. Even DVD's vary quite a bit, requiring level adjustment. I just do not have a set level which I use for each of the various sources that I would not make a change in for any number of reasons. Chances are good that I'm going to pick up the remote and make a volume change for any number of reasons including environmental factors such as "Turn that down, it's too loud!" So, point being- I'm probably gonna make a change anyway, so no big deal for me.
In regards to sub level changes, once I set the trim and crossovers, I rarely have had reason to change the sub level for music or movies. Maybe I'm just lucky. On the rare occasions I do, it only takes a few seconds and it's done. I could see this being a problem if you are constantly making adjustments in sub levels- an easy to access sub trim button on the remote could be handy. For me, these are very minor annoyances and are easy to live with.

I've read a few other posts around with people having the same comments about the 1066 and 950 that I have as far as the 1066 being laid back and the 950 being forward. The more I listen, the more I am convinced that this is the best way to decide between these units based on sound alone.

I know a lot of folks don't care about all of the other things. (I happen to) So if you want to choose one of these based on sound, I think that may be your best guide. If you like a forward sound, try the 950. If you like a laid back sound, try the 1066.

I think that very well sums up the audio performance of these two pieces. Both are great performers that I think will please either camp (warm and bright) accordingly.


brianca..

to add to Brians post (if you don't mind)

everything depends on the other equipment found in the system, obviously not just the prepro. My ATI 1502 and Monitor Audio Silver 5's are highly accurate while providing lots of detail and air. Therefore for me, i believe the Rotel would be the best match for my set-up. With the 950, i find the sound to still be accurate but on the edgy side of things. I'm not implying that the addition of the 950 makes my system harsh by any means, just a little on the edgy side. This only applies to music, dd/dts sound is right on in my book.

If only the 1066 had 24/192 DAC's the decision would be much more simple for me...

Absolutely correct. Thanks for the clarification.

Brianca...where did you find those other posts on the 1066???

I agree with you. Maybe the "usability" issues are because the 950 is Outlaw's very first pre/pro. The 1066 doesn't have as Brian says, a "thousand papercuts" of minor problems, but not because Rotel is a better company, but because Rotel has built pre/pro's for years. The 950 is a good FIRST pre/pro. And it costs less than the Rotel, which makes buying the 950 less painful, despite the "thousand papercuts" of usability issues and hiss and pops, etc. But I bet most of issues can be easily corrected, perhaps with a minor EEprom revision to the 950. (Rev 1 of the 950?) Alternatively, I would not be surprised if these usability issues get corrected in the Sherbourn or the Atlantic Tech clones. Both clones have the benefit of watching how Outlaw did it and no doubt EastTech will be happy to oblige with minor changes to allow Sherbourn and AT to differentiate their product. This could even be used to justify the higher price for the Sherbourn and AT clones. Of course, this is all pure speculation.


[This message has been edited by Will (edited May 29, 2002).]

brianca,

Give the 950 some time to be fair... I found the 950 to be slightly harsh at first myself (very critically speaking), but it's really changed since then (I got mine in the first week of shipping).

I no longer find it nearly as harsh now. Now I won't call it perfect or course, but I wouldn't use the word harsh at all now, like I did at first.

I'm going to try a diff. amp to hear the diff., since that has an effect of course too.

My current amp is the digital 200W x 2 Audiosource AMP 7t.

Also...

Don't think only bookshelf speakers are better off w/ the bass cut off below 80Hz.

Those Energy's of yours would be better off crossed over @ 80Hz than run full range (which they aren't), so the double bass shouldn't be an issue for you either.

Those dual 6 1/2" woofers are producing everything in the midrange up to the tweeter which is x'ed over about ...what... probably ~2500Hz?

NOT having to play the massive tones of 80Hz and below will very much open up the sound of those woofers even more than they are now.

And you won't be sending those drivers tones lower than the 30hz that they can't do at all -not that those Energy's are actually flat to below 30Hz like you think they are, but that's not the point.

And you'll gain more headroom from your main speaker's amps by not having to play those lowest of tones.

Many good things to be had by using that 80Hz analog x-over in the 950.

I cross my Newform Research 645's over @ 80Hz even though they actually can play flat to ~35Hz without any 'room boost' -which they don't get any of, because they're correctly set up ~6 feet away from any walls (like your Energy's should be to sound their best -if you have the space).

These speakers use dual 6 1/2" Scan-Speak 8545 carbonfiber/paper woofers in a ported cabinet, so in that respect they're similar to your Energy's drivers in that they play much of the midrange while also having to play the full bass range if set to 'Large'.

They're x-ed over lower than your Energy's though they're in an even better position to play the bass range.

Also, this driver has a freq. resonance of ~30Hz. This is tremendously low for a 6 1/2" driver and almost no 6 1/2" in production can match it.

It's the midrange driver used in the $20K Wilson Audio WATT/puppy, and used by tons of VERY high end companies.

My point (and there is one -heh) is NOT to brag or anything (sorry if it sounds that way), but to explain that even while my Newform's are more suited to play very deep bass compared to your Energy's, since the woofers have to play higher freqs. (like yours), they're better off w/ the sub handling the very heavy non-directional bass tones below 80Hz as are your Energy's.

Only tower speakers that use a "sepp. midrange driver" (which neither of our speakers do) are not benefitted by getting the 'below 80Hz' bass out of them.

And even then, there's no reason NOT to have your subwoofer handle the below 80Hz tones.

They're non-directional, and a larger subwoofer driver is better off playing those 80Hz and lower tones than your 6 1/2's, and you get less distortion from the subs at the same volume due to it being corner loaded boosting it's overall output -an effect that works great for subs, but like crap w/ the directional signals above 80Hz that come from your main speakers.

Maybe this'll help other people too who think this 'double bass' issue is a problem.

I do think Outlaw was dumb in how they have double bass if you have your mains set to 'large', BUT probably close to 100% of people using the 950 have NO good reason NOT to cut their mains off at 80Hz anyway.

They could have bad reasons like...
"My mains go lower so I want them to" (for no reason other than they won't think they're getting their money's worth from their costly mains if the neuter it's low bass output)
or
"My sub in NOT non-directional at 80Hz" (because their sub sucks and is playing above 80Hz harmonics, and/or they have room problems that need to be dealt with)
or
"My mains have tighter bass than my sub in the 30ish-80Hz region"
(Again, your sub sucks then. Go buy a real one).

I understand and agree with everything that you've said, but I still insist on doing what sounds best to me in my theater. That's the only real gauge I have to go by.

Like I said, I don't think that my Energys can play a 20Hz note, but I don't listen to much music that has a lot of 20Hz tones. I'd rather listen to an acoustic guitar recording that my energys can do quite well using just my mains.

I just wanted to point out that the double bass can be easily heard and measured in my system. I had heard some folks say that they couldn't tell the difference with the sub on or off. I could.

I really appreciate your post. Hopefully, it'll re-enforce that what I've posted is just my opinion about what I hear. Hopefully, everyone will listen and decide for themselves.

Also, I tried to point out that the 950 was rarely harsh. It's usually just bright or forward. There are still passages that I hear that I would consider harsh to me.

I also posted that it had grown on me with more listening as you suggested, but I have a limited time to grow used to it before I have to fish or cut bait.

brianca..


[This message has been edited by brianca (edited May 29, 2002).]