Looks like there is another Outlaw 950 knock off coming out. I read this at smr.com CES 2002 review. It looks just like the 950 and AT model. They said that it will sell for $2,000. It also sounds like there could be more knock offs coming out.

Website for the article- http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/ces2002/home_theater/page_02.shtml

Great catch Dennis!

According to the report, more knock-offs are definitely coming. It'll be interesting to see the various faceplates, prices and features (assuming other manufacturers decide to turn some of them "off") that the clones will have. From what Outlaw has suggested, they'll have every feature (that can possibly be enabled) in this design turned "on".

_______
Sanjay

Definitely interesting, but it begs the question of why someone would want the AT or Sherbourn version of the 950 if it'll cost that much more and have only aesthetic differences. Even if you can get a "deal" from a retailer and knock 30% or 40% off the retail price, you're still looking at paying $1140-$1290 for the AT and $1200-$1400 for the Sherbourne P7/1000. Plus tax. If you can get that good a price. If it's like a lot of other pre/pros, typical "street" price will be anywhere from 15% to 25% below list price.

------------------
Gonk

Wow! No wonder they're under pressure. It's not 'cause of us though. How many more clones are coming from this design? That should be a good sign for us. More support if we ever need it.

gonk, I would hazard a guess that anyone buying these other units (if indeed they are the knockoffs they appear to be) would be someone not familiar with the Outlaw Audio name.

It's a great sign; one that says that the Outlaws have a winning design on their hands. While we haven't had a chance to see specs or listen to the 950, the fact that at least 2 other companies (so far!) are using this design is a very, very good indication that it is a competent piece.

As for how many more clones we'll see; who knows. It won't make the 950 any better or worse (though years from it might make the market for used 950s a little less lucrative).

Anyway, if I were Eastech, I would be shopping this design really hard. You never know when something this popular will land in your (corporate) lap again; not to mention having to make up for that killer price you gave your first customer (Outlaw).

_______
Sanjay


[This message has been edited by sdurani (edited February 11, 2002).]

Or someone who prefers to buy at a B&M store rather than by mail order/internet.


------------------
Nigel Pond
SMR Home Theatre
SMR Forums
SMR Group
HighFidelityReview

It's actually not clear to me that Outlaw will have to have the best feature set among them. While the hardware is cast in stone, so to speak, the removable EPROM could be independently designed/modified by these other companies to suit their own needs. For example, if the hardware is capable, it seems reasonable for one of these other companies with April or beyond release dates to incorporate DSP code for DTS 24/96 or other forthcoming formats/modes into their products.

I actually email Sherbourn about their pre amp before I found out it was a Outlaw knock off and there pre amp isn't coming out til april. Below is the response I got from the owner of the company Ron Fone:

Dear Mr. Georgatos:

Thanks for your interest in Sherbourn. Yes...we hope to have our new two zone 7.1 Pre/Pro/Tuner available in mid April. It will have all the latest signal processing capabilities including Dolby Digital Surround EX, Dolby Pro Logic 2, and DTS/ES. It will include the very latest 96 mHz high bandwidth video chip for compatibility with HDTV and progressive scan DVD. Naturally it will cosmetically match our 5/500A amplifier.

We have set the retail price at $2000.00 and it will be available through any of our franchised dealers. It will carry a three year parts and labor warranty.

Best regards,

Ron Fone

While anything is possible, I think the scenario above is highly unprobable. These other companies that are releasing 950 clones are using the Outlaw/Eastech stock design because they lack the expertise in creating their own surround processors; Atlantic Tech makes speakers and Sherbourn makes amps. Since they don't even have the knowledge base to design their own pre/pro, I don't see how they would have the expertise to further refine Outlaw's design. Just my opinion.

_______
Sanjay

I agree with sanjay, in part because of comments in the past about the design of the 950 and the hurdles they had to get over along the way. One newsletter last year noted that DTS 96/24 wasn't an option because the hardware wasn't available yet (which means there's no way to add DTS 96/24 with a little tweaking). From all they effort the Outlaws have put into the 950, it seems reasonable that you're not going to be able to improve on the features much without some major design work.

------------------
Gonk

This is interesting. I purchased a Sherbourn 5/1500A last year. Today I reserved my 950. For the record, I had a hard time deciding if I should get the Sherbourn or Outlaw amp. Based on reviews notably the one from Widescreen Review I ended up buying the Sherbourn. I got a fantastic deal from a local distributor and have not regretted it. It is an incredible amp providing 200 watts per channel.

I just found out about the 950 last night when reading the lastest issue of Widescreen review. I then did a little research and also found this board. I find it reassuring that companies as dedicated as Outlaw and Sherbourn are slapping their logos on this Preamp. As a matter of fact, I was wondering how well this Preamp will mate with the Sherbourn. I am extremely relieved to see Sherbourn marketing it also. The fact that Outlaw is selling it at $899 and Sherbourn is selling it at $2000 tells me that I'm getting a fantastic deal.

For the record, my speakers are B&W CDM7's for front and a CDMC center. Rears are the old B&W Solids.

Oh, I'm currently using a Denon 2801 as a preamp. If anybody is interested in purchasing it, let me know(grm0331@optonline.net), otherwise it will be showing up on ebay as soon as I recieve my 950.

Great posts: Thanks everyone!!!!!

Companies can increase the value of the unit. For example, a nicer remote, longer warranty, software upgrades, check it out in a local store and take it home the same day, ...

It happens with cars a lot - that newish Ford (Escape?) and Mazda (?) trucks for example. Volkswagon and Audi. Honda and Acura. Toyota and Lexus. They might share a common wheelbase etc but customized extras make different price points for different customers.

Hmm, sounds like the products may not be identical since Outlaw touts only 45MHz bandwidth on the 950. (And I assume they meant MegaHertz, not milliHertz.)

Hey Apollo,

I have recently replaced my Outlaw 750 amp with the Sherbourn 5/1500A. Although the Outlaw is a really nice amp and quite a value, it isn't in the league of the Sherbourn. I've noticed a wider and deeper soundstage, added crispness, and quite a bit more retrieval. (Mated with Lexicon DC-1 4.0, Bohlender Graebener Radia X-Series speakers.)

In short, you made the right choice!

Skraggle,

Yeah, its an awesome amp. The soundstaging is incredible. Using the Denon 2801 as a preamp must be inhibiting the full potential of the Sherbourn tho and is my weaklink. I'm sure the music will drastically improve when I get the 950. At least I hope it does.

Hey Outlaws,

I'm not sure if you guys realize the quality of products that Sherbourn designs and produces. If Mr Fone and Mr Tang(founders) are in anyway involved in the generic design process of these preamps, then its a very very good thing. To be honest with you, these guys care as much about their products as the Outlaws care about theirs. Therefore, I'm assuming that they must be involved in some capacity. If thats the case, then we have an allstar team designing this thing. It's obvious that Outlaw is the main contributor to this design, but any input from Sherbourn would be a huge plus. If Sherbourn did not have a say in the design process, then I'm sure they went over Outlaws design with a fine tooth comb and obviously liked it. In either case, with Sherbourn marketing this, then they must feel this is a superb product.

My excitement level has increased to the point where I can't wait to get my hands on the 950. My birthday is coming up and have used that as an excuse to get spousal approval. Spouse of course considers the TV speakers to be more then adequate for a home theater and cannot understand my enthusiasm for this. If it was up to her, my home theater would consist of my old 27" Sony circa 1986 and my old JVC VCR.