This is my first post. I usually just enjoy reading and learning. I am seriously considering becoming a member of the outlaw family and getting on the reservation list for a 950 and a 750 or 770. Have a question though that I hope someone can help me with. I know the 950 isn’t out yet but, hopefully someone can shed some light on my dilemma. I just ordered Def Tech BP 2000TL’s, should be getting them next week. So, I haven’t heard them in my room yet. A lot of Def Tech owners swear that these speakers need to wired “full range” using a Y adapter and the pre out/ main in’s on the processor or receiver and then run speaker cable to the mid inputs on the speakers. The 950 doesn’t have any pre out/main in connections. Does anyone know another way to accomplish this configuration? I don’t know if this will be an issue yet as I haven’t heard them in my house just running speaker cable alone to the speakers. Any suggestions would be appreciated! Also, what about the LFE output. Will any of this info be lost without running a dedicated sub via the sub output. All the bass will be in the front three channels.

Because it's not a receiver, it's a pre-amp/processor so it only has pre outs.

What's wrong with just hooking them up via speaker wires? Instead of complicating things unnecessarily with Y connectors and what-not, you might first want to try the simple method. The crossovers that are specifically designed into these speakers will do a better job of routing various frequencies to the proper drivers that some external crossover (like the one built into the 950).

This depends on how flexible the 950 is. In the set-up menu there may be a provision to configure for a speaker set-up that doesn't include a subwoofer; in which case that information should get folded into the front L/R channels. We'll know for sure once we get a peek at the 950's instruction manual.

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Sanjay

The Def Tech BP2000TL's have built-in powered subs, don't they? A quick check of DefTech's site indicates that they are tri-wirable and have separate LFE inputs. I'm not sure what other DefTech owners do, but I would tend to go with speaker cable to the binding posts (don't think I would tri-wire them, but I might bi-wire and jumper the mid and high with a good scrap of speaker cable instead of the jumper bar) and then put a Y-splitter on the LFE output of the pre/pro and send the LFE to both speakers' LFE inputs. That way, the powered subs in each tower would be getting the LFE signal.

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Gonk

Using the 950 Gonk is 100% correct (as usual)! Some processors have a R/L sub output. In that case you would not use a 'Y' adaptor, just direct connection. As far as bi wiring --- only do this if you have the same type (and length) of cable for each 'wire'. If you use different cable/length you can incorporate a VERY SLIGHT time delay between each wire which will not be audible except a slight loss in stereo imaging (sound staging).

Considering that the signal is traveling through the wires at over 186,000 MILES PER SECOND, how much of a time delay do you think will occur for it to result in a loss, however slight, in sound stage imaging? For example, to introduce just 1 millisecond of delay you'd need one speaker cable to be over 980,000 feet longer than the other.

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Sanjay


[This message has been edited by sdurani (edited February 09, 2002).]

Right idea, wrong numbers I believe. After making the same mistatement a week or so ago, I went back to the books.

The signal is traveling through the wires at about .3 speed of light not speed of light itself.

None the less, it's still too fast for cable length to make an audible difference in delay.


brianca

It'll just throw things slightly out of phase. How badly, I don't know... but probably not enough to make an audible difference.

A tone near the edge of human hearing, at 20 kHz, will be 180 degrees out of phase if you introduce a delay of 1/40,000 sec. Using Brianca's .3 number, that still leaves about 8200 feet difference.

So, it's still out of the ballpark by about two orders of magnitude.

Thanks for the info. The reason I asked the question is because some “owners” and “magazine reviewers” have recommended the Y connectionmethod as far as the powered subs go. While others have not. The dealer recommends the simple speaker connection method, however, I was in the same dealership a few years ago and they were recommending the Y connection. (?) The LFE input on the speakers is “full range”. It takes whatever bass it wants and doesn’t pass along the other signals. Initially I am going to run just speaker cable and see what I think. As for the 950, I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t “limited” to the speaker cable only option. I believe I could run Y splitters from the 950’s L and R outputs, connect one end to the LFE and the other to the 750 or 770. Then from the amp with speaker cable to the mid connection (or even bi-wire to the high connection) of the speakers. Am I right, in this assumption?

Please don't take this personally, but I did say "VERY SLIGHT" and "NOT AUDIBLE" except "for a slight decrease in stereo imaging". Most systems will not notice any difference. Some systems I have encountered are so close to loosing this sound staging (instrument and vocal placement) that cable type and length has effected imaging to an audible degree. Differences such as having one cable made of silver and one made of copper can really have SIGNIFICANT effects on this imaging. Sometimes statistics and data facts only depict part of the story. A great deal of life is 'intangible', at least by my experience!

Widget, I am not sure, but am in hopes that the LFE output on the 950 will have the ability to disengage the bass management. Since it has not been released yet I don't know. If it can you could 'Y' off the 950 LFE output and use the speaker cross over. You could then run the remainder of the speaker from the 770 or 750 amp (bi-wiring if you desire!). Even if the 950 does not have the ability to disengage the bass management this might still be your best bet, you will just need to 'play' with the settings for the best sound. Your suggestion of using the 'RCA" out from the R/L on the mains on the 950 (using a 'Y' connector) may or may not work to your satisfaction. Some systems set up like this can provide feed back to the amplifier resulting in a 'hum' or 'hissing' sound. I have seen some systems work great set up this way, though! A lot of HiFi is trial and error! A lot of complex interactions exists between various components!



[This message has been edited by Slick1964 (edited February 09, 2002).]

Thanks for the info Slick. Didn't even think about any resulting hum or other interactions! I agree with that the LFE output on the 950 would be the way to go. Just have to wait and see (like everyone else) what the 950 will actually do. Shouldn't be much longer!!!